300. Navigating Adversity with Courage and Connection

Chapters

• 0:20 Celebrating 300 Episodes With Michael Hingson
• 15:15 Finding Strength Through Adversity
• 27:47 Lessons on Bravery and Moving Forward
• 34:22 Building Trust and Teamwork With Dogs
• 47:27 Journey of Trust and Moving Forward
• 1:01:41 Celebrating 300 Heartlifters

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

Thank you Now settle in for today's remarkable conversation with Janelle. Wherever you find yourself today, may these words help you become stronger in every way.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Hello HeartLifter. Guess what today is? Drum roll please, drum roll please. Yes, today is our 300th episode. Oh my, what a time of celebration In my heart, and I hope in yours too. You are my heart. Lift, community. Every single word I write, speak, teach is for you. I hope that you know that I am so. You have chosen to come here to spend this time with me and I am so very, very grateful. I thought a lot about who I wanted to celebrate my 300th episode with, and my heart just kept going back to Michael Hingson. My heart just kept going back to Michael Hingson.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Michael is an extraordinary human being and his new book, live Like a Guide Dog true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith, just launched into the world in August of this year. You may have heard of Michael's first book, thunderdog the true story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust at ground zero. Michael co-wrote that book with one of my dear friends, susie Flory, and when one of the four hijacked planes flew into the World Trade Center's North Tower on September 11, 2001, michael Hinkson, who at that time was a district sales manager for a data protection and network security systems company was sitting down for a meeting. His guide dog at that time, roselle, was at his feet, Blind from birth, our guest today, michael could hear the sounds of shattering glass, falling debris and terrified people flooding all around him. But Roselle, oh Roselle she sat calmly beside him. In that moment Michael chose to trust. Okay, that's the underlying theme here. Michael chose to trust Roselle's judgment and not to panic. They were a team.

Speaker 2: 3:27

In this book, thunderdog that Michael wrote with Susie, they talked about the ways that grief and loss can lead the way for change, how the rare trust between a man and his guide dog can inspire your own unshakable faith and the healing power of telling your own story. If you haven't read Thunderdog, I highly recommend giving that as a Christmas gift because I'm telling you, dog lover or not, the riveting story that Michael tells us in Thunderdog is a great preface. Us in Thunderdog is a great preface Prelude for this book. Live Like a Guide Dog True Stories from a Blind man and His Dogs about being brave and overcoming. Oh, my goodness, we are going to have such a great 300th episode conversation on the faith journey, on trust, on resilience, on the faith journey, on trust, on resilience, michael, is amazing.

Speaker 2: 4:32

So buckle up and get yourself something good and delicious to drink and a pen and a journal, because I think you're going to want to take some notes here and I'll meet back with you after, or maybe even during my conversation with Michael. As you'll hear in the beginning, I get to call Mike. So welcome Michael to the show. Hello, and welcome to today's Heart Lift. Oh, my goodness, I've been waiting patiently for this interview, and so has our guest today, michael Hinkson. We had a little faux pas the other day, but I am trusting that timing is perfect. So, michael, my goodness, is it Michael? Or I mean it says Michael, but can I call you?

Speaker 3: 5:14

Michael. It says Michael. But you asked. Now you're stuck with the story. It took a master's degree and 10 years in sales to figure this out. I used to always on the phone say I'm Mike Hinkson and people always said Mr Hinkson and I couldn't figure out why. It took, like I said, 10 years and a master's degree in physics and a secondary teaching credential for that matter to figure out that if I said Michael Hinkson or Mike Hinkson which is an awkward pause, so Michael Hinkson people would get the Hingson part right. So I started saying Michael Hingson, but I don't really care, so Mike is fine.

Speaker 2: 5:49

Well, I love Michael too, because it's my brother's name, and I do love my brother. So, all right, well, I'll call you Mike because I call him Mike, that's fine. Do you seriously have a master's degree in physics? You?

Speaker 1: 6:01

do, don't you.

Speaker 2: 6:02

I do Our smart thing, my word, wow. Well, michael, your first book is dear to me because it was co-written with a dear friend of mine, susie Flory Thunderdog. And if you would just give us a quick little peek into Thunderdog and that story, which is just heartwarming and all the things.

Speaker 3: 6:27

So, briefly, just to tell you how the book came about, because that really is part of my personality I love teamwork. I've been working with guide dogs since I was 1964. And I have always believed, and I think it's absolutely true. The most important thing people need to know about guide dogs is it's a team and it's not that the dog is, as I say, the brains of the outfit. The dog is not. The dog's job is to make sure that we walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there. How do I do that? Gee, how do you do that? You know, the reality is it's different techniques to do the same thing. Well, anyway, so the story is that on September 11th 2001, I was the Mid-Atlantic Region Sales Manager for a computer company and I opened the office in 2000 on the 78th floor of the World Trade.

Speaker 2: 7:14

Center. Oh, my goodness Mike.

Speaker 3: 7:16

And on September 11th, I was there with my guide dog Roselle. We had some guests, early arrivals for some seminars we were going to be conducting that day and, of course, the buildings were attacked. We got out, I helped others and I had prepared. I knew how to get out. I knew what to do in the case of an emergency because I had spent considerable time talking to the Port Authority, fire protection people, the police and so on, learning everything I could about the World Trade Center, what happened in an emergency, what they did. What I didn't realize is and this will be relevant later I was creating a mindset that said you know what to do in an emergency, which is something that all of you light-dependent people don't do.

Speaker 3: 7:58

You just decide you're going to read signs. Well, that works until it can't. Knowledge is a lot better, and so one of the things that I advocate today, when I speak to people and I do a lot of speeches around the world talking about things including emergency preparedness I tell people don't rely on signs. Learn and know. Even if you're in a building for only a few hours, at least find out where some of the emergency exits are. Don't rely on the signs, because if suddenly there is smoke, you can't read the signs. Where are you? That's right. And light dependence is your disability. Everyone has it, except for those of us who are independent. Wow, so you know, disability is something that we all have. It manifests differently, so anyway we got out.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Yeah, no, that's a really great beautiful statement.

Speaker 3: 8:46

though, mike, I wanted to make sure we paused on that, sure, yeah that is so in December 2002, I was at a dog show actually the American Kennel Club Canine Eukanuba Dog Championship, where Roselle was being honored, and I met the publisher of the AKC Gazette, george Berger, who said you should write a book.

Speaker 1: 9:07

I had never thought about it.

Speaker 3: 9:09

Well, bottom line is, over the next seven and a half years, I started taking notes and writing down things I wanted to put in a book, and George actually had an agent he introduced me to who said you should write a business book. And I said no, I don't want a business book. I want a book that everyone can read and everyone would be able to read. And so I just kept making notes and in like, I think, june or so of 2010, I got a phone call from a woman named Susie Flory, and Susie said I'm writing a book called Dog Tales. It's going to be 17 chapters. Each one is about a dog and I want one of them to be about Roselle, and I said OK. She said tell me your story if you would. I spent about 45 minutes telling her the story and after we were done she paused for a second. Then she said you should write a book and I want to help you do it. And so Susie and I collaborated. Susie didn't write it, I didn't write it. We collaborated on the book.

Speaker 3: 10:10

I was probably the editor in chief between the two of us, but I also wrote a lot of it, including certain parts, for example, the way the book is laid out.

Speaker 3: 10:19

Each chapter begins with an event on September 11th and we chronologically go through the day and then we go back to lessons I learned in my life that helped me with that particular event and then we come back to the end of the chapter, going on with the World Trade Center story. And one of the things when Thomas Nelson's editor was reading the book he said the problem with what you wrote is you lost me. You lose me in every chapter because you just kind of go from September 11th back and then you come back. There's no real transition, fluidity. And I said, okay, I'll fix that, and I spent a weekend putting in transitions. Well, to make the story fairly short, the editor liked it. But then Kirkus, which is the magazine for publishers and libraries, and so on, when they reviewed it, they said one of the best parts about the book was the transitions, because no one got lost going through the chapters.

Speaker 2: 11:17

Oh my goodness, well done, mike Wow.

Speaker 3: 11:20

So I thought that was pretty good In a weekend you did it.

Speaker 2: 11:22

That's called a flow, wow. So I thought that was pretty good.

Speaker 3: 11:23

You did it, that's that's called a flow Spent the whole weekend.

Speaker 2: 11:26

So that's intense so anyway.

Speaker 3: 11:28

Thunderdog is about my life, but it's also about what happened on September 11th. Yeah, it became a number one New York Times bestselling book and was visible, it's still available anywhere books are sold, Audiobooks through Audible and so on. It's available for blind people through the Library of Congress National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped.

Speaker 2: 11:54

So it's available everywhere books are sold.

Speaker 3: 11:55

And then in 2013, we wrote a children's book, again with children's author Jeanette Hanscom, and what we did with that was to write a story of Roselle growing up and me growing up.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Uh-huh. It's so good, I know it's for grandchildren. I love it.

Speaker 3: 12:14

And then so. So that was published and it's out there again. The whole story behind it is that they are about well running with Roselle. The second book is not so much about September 11th, it's about us growing up, but Thunderdog really very much is about September 11th, but also things in my life, because I wanted to write a book that would teach people that blindness isn't the problem, it's your ideas and lack of education and attitudes about blindness, and that blind people are just as much people as anyone else. So I hope that it helps to educate and it continues to help to educate people?

Speaker 2: 12:50

Oh, because you know, mike, we can't imagine Like I can't imagine, I can't imagine so just-.

Speaker 3: 12:58

Well, you can if you have the knowledge, Okay, well, I want the knowledge right. But the problem is that most people don't. They make assumptions, and so, even if you can't imagine, don't assume, okay.

Speaker 2: 13:12

I like that.

Speaker 3: 13:13

That's the kind of thing that we encounter all the time. I said earlier that the dog's job is to make sure that we walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there, and I recognize that people with eyesight mostly can't understand my gosh, you're blind. How could you possibly know where to go? Well, how do you know where to go? Well, I read signs. It tells me that I'm at the corner of 4th and Main. Okay, that's great, but you know, the difference is that I don to know absolutely without even reading assignment. I am at the corner of fourth and main.

Speaker 3: 13:47

The bottom line is there are techniques to use. Blindness isn't the problem. It's our attitude about blindness that keeps so many blind people from getting jobs and other persons with other kinds of disabilities from getting jobs, and so I am really working to try to get people to rethink the whole concept of disability. As I said, every single person on the planet has a disability. Most of you are light dependent and as soon as the lights go out if you don't have a smartphone or a flashlight around, you're in a world of hurt.

Speaker 2: 14:20

Yeah, we're cooked.

Speaker 3: 14:20

Doesn't bother me a bit.

Speaker 2: 14:22

Exactly, but that's why you're here. So I wanted you here, because I want you to help us expand our understanding, expand our knowledge. Really, the word know is so important to me because we need to know, we need to embrace knowledge and have it. So is that how Live? Like a Guide Dog unfolded then, was it like let me give you more knowledge, let me give you more understanding.

Speaker 3: 14:52

Very much so. Live Like a Guide Dog, which is the third book, which will be published in August of this year. Yes so, Live Like a Guide Dog came about because of the fact that, when the pandemic started well, let me go back After September 11th I decided that selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun than selling computers.

Speaker 2: 15:15

I love it.

Speaker 3: 15:16

And that happened because people started calling me and saying we'd like to hire you to come and speak to us and tell your story and tell us the lessons we should learn about September 11th. And I became a public speaker, a keynote speaker, and I do that today I speak to organizations. They hire me to come we talk about. One of my favorite speeches is entitled Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, and the reason it's entitled that is that when you ask most diversity experts what is diversity, they talk about gender, sexual orientation and race, never talk about disability.

Speaker 2: 15:52

No, they do not. I have a very close friend who is also working hard on that herself.

Speaker 3: 15:58

Yeah, well, the problem is that, even in the traditional sense of disability, by the way, disability does not mean lack of ability of people say well of course.

Speaker 3: 16:08

Well, the people say, of course it does, because it starts with this yeah, Then how do you work with a word like disciple or discreet? You know so, discreet, does that mean a lack of Crete? Disciple, is that a lack of Eiffel? No, disciple, discreet, disability it's a word and it can mean so many different things than what we choose to allow it to be today. It's like people say, well, you're blind or you're visually impaired. Visually impaired is the most disgusting word that you can use to describe a person who is blind. Why?

Speaker 2: 16:43

Tell me why. Tell me, you know, I want to know.

Speaker 3: 16:46

Why? Because visually, I'm not different simply because I'm blind. I don't magically change my appearance, but the professionals in the field created that term many years ago and then they added to it impaired. Well, I'm not impaired, and that's part of the problem and what we really need to change. I am not visually different and I impaired, and that's part of the problem and what we really need to change. I am not visually different and I am not impaired simply because I'm blind, any more than you are, because you're light dependent. When the lights go out, the reality is it should be blind or low vision. Deaf people learn this. Deaf people learn this a long time ago. It's not deaf or hearing impaired. They'll shoot you if you say that.

Speaker 2: 17:23

Yeah, I won't do it anymore, deaf or hearing impaired.

Speaker 3: 17:24

They'll shoot you if you say that, yeah, I won't do it anymore. And people you know have learned it's deaf or hard of hearing and blind and low vision is what we should do.

Speaker 2: 17:31

Anyway, I like it. No, thank you, that's really important, it's really good.

Speaker 3: 17:36

Anyway, so Well, you are not impaired my friend my new friend in any way.

Speaker 3: 17:41

So, with the speaking, that has gone really well until 2020, when the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, travel stopped and I started looking for alternative things to do. Well, a couple of things happened. I started learning about podcasting, yeah, and I knew that there were ways to use that as a way to raise money. But something else happened. That same year I went to a website to register a domain and discovered something on the website that I hadn't seen before.

Speaker 3: 18:13

Today, if you are blind and I use a piece of software called a screen reader, it's a piece of software that verbalizes whatever comes across the screen, and on this website I heard put your web browser in a screen reader mode button, and I've used that website before, but the problem is that it was not as accessible as I would like and it was a little bit more of a challenge to actually work with the site. But when I found this button that I had never seen on that site before, I pushed it and my gosh, the website became incredibly more accessible and usable than I had ever seen. Wow. So I went off and investigated and found that it was actually a product developed by a company called Accessibee A-C-C-E-S-S-I capital B-E, accessibee, and I won't go into the details of exactly what happens, but it's interesting.

Speaker 3: 19:06

But what happened is that I started talking to some of the AccessiBe people and eventually the founder called and said we want you to join the company. And so I said okay, let's talk about that. And we spoke in January of 2021. And he said you know, we really think that you can add a lot of value and teach us more about disabilities. What are you doing now? And I told him well, I'm learning about podcasting. And he said well, that's kind of funny, because we'd love somebody to do a podcast for us.

Speaker 2: 19:35

And I said wow, holy day Wow.

Speaker 3: 19:38

And I said and I said what? And he said well, what I want is just a podcast. We don't really care specifically about what. So they hired me to be a part of why they set a contract up with me and they said create a podcast. So in August of 2021, we started Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet.

Speaker 3: 19:59

Love it so much, and so the podcast ran for about a year and then we were getting so much interest on LinkedIn so it started in August 2021, but in August 2022, we were getting so much visibility that we decided we will publish two episodes a week and we'll put it up on YouTube so it's also available for people who like to watch things. We got to accommodate you light dependent people, so it's been up and we just today published, since August of 2021, episode 214.

Speaker 2: 20:37

So, congratulations. A lot of fun. I bet you're awesome. I'm going to be listening. I'm going to be listening. Yeah, I bet that you're so awesome.

Speaker 3: 20:50

You're well spoken All the things you're not. Yeah, I bet that you're so awesome You're well-spoken all the things your knowledge so I started doing that. Then the next thing that happened was that my wife became ill later in 2022 and passed away in November of 2022. But by that time, I had also started to think about the fact you weren't afraid on September 11th, but you've never taught people how to deal with that. So I decided that we really ought to write a book about helping people learn to control fear and not let fear overwhelm them.

Speaker 3: 21:20

And so we started again working with a friend of Susie Flores because Susie was busy. We started working with a friend, Carrie Wyatt Kent.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Carrie's amazing.

Speaker 3: 21:32

Yes, we have written this book entitled Live Like a Guide Dog True Stories from a Blind man and His Dogs About being Brave, overcoming Adversity and Walking in Faith.

Speaker 2: 21:43

I know Moving forward in faith, moving forward, is really important.

Speaker 3: 21:47

So the bottom line is that we worked with Carrie's agent, actually found a publishing house, Tyndale Publishing House. They were excited about it and are excited about it, but it is about learning to control fears. So every chapter, every chapter is about one of my guide dogs and there are actually a couple that are about two. There are two chapters long. A couple of the dogs get two chapters.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Wow, a special top billing, exactly.

Speaker 3: 22:22

And the idea is that I use the chapters to talk about lessons that I've learned about dealing with fear, from watching the dogs and dealing with the dogs and creating a team and literally it is as close knit of a team as like SEAL, team 6 or the Army Rangers or any close knit team, and the dogs play a big part in it in so many ways. And so Live Like a Guide Dog is all about helping people learn that fear is not something that, as I put it, should blind you or overwhelm you. If something incredibly horrible happens around you, like the World Trade Center being attacked, you can control your fear and use fear as a positive tool to help you be vigilant and deal with whatever is going on as best you can. And one of the biggest lessons is we had no control over September 11th happening. I had no control over what happened to my wife. Overall, it is just the body slows down and, as her physical medicine doctors always said you know, bodies don't come with a lifetime warranty so she passed in November.

Speaker 2: 23:36

I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3: 23:38

There are other instances in my life that we talk about, where fear could have just really taken over and it could have meant the end. But I learned you can move forward. I never say, for example, with Karen and, by the way, we were married for 40 years I never say to people I move on from Karen, I won't never move on from Karen, I don't want to move on from Karen but I'm but I move forward from Karen.

Speaker 2: 24:07

OK, that's a big difference, or I should put it a different way. I move forward from Karen.

Speaker 3: 24:08

I don't want to move on from Karen, but I'm, but I move forward from Karen. Okay, that's a big difference. Or I should put it a different way I move forward with Karen.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Karen's around.

Speaker 3: 24:13

If I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so you know.

Speaker 2: 24:16

I tell my husband I'm going to hear you in my ear the rest of my life. We've married almost 40 years. I mean that's a long time, right, mike? That's a big deal. You know she's around.

Speaker 3: 24:25

So the idea is that Live Like a Guide Dog is intended to help people learn that you can control fear. There are specific things that you can do that can help you control fear, and when an emergency or something unexpected happens, or even something that isn't unexpected but you start to get afraid about it isn't unexpected, but you start to get afraid about it you can deal with that in a way that will help you move forward and not be stressed out and not be again, as I say, blinded or paralyzed by fear or overwhelmed by fear.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Overwhelmed is because we live in a state of overwhelm.

Speaker 3: 25:01

We don't need to live in a state of overwhelm, though.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Okay, so that's why you're here, mike, I want you to tell me one of the things you say is to train yourself to be brave. Well, I almost think that could have been the title of the next book, or whatever. Train how do I, how does my community, train ourselves to be brave? I really I'm not a seal. I've never been in seal training. I've not been privy to anyone really giving me some nuts and bolts.

Speaker 3: 25:27

I'm like you have 11 principles and neither have I Directly no, not directly.

Speaker 3: 25:33

But the issue is that in dealing with, as I said, with SEAL Team 6, what I do know about them, what you know about them, is they're a team. They work together 're a team, they work together, and the reality is more of us should learn to work as a team. More of us should learn to have a better relationship with animals like our dogs. Don't just have a dog around the house. Oh, I love my dog and all that, but you know he barks all the time. That's something you can deal with, but the bottom line is that what is important is that you learn that when you are, when you are becoming afraid of something the first thing and the more of it you do, by the way, the better and the easier this becomes but you need to make yourself step back and go wait a minute. What am I really afraid of? Because probably what you're afraid of, or you think you're afraid of, is not what is really going on, and a number of people have said so many times. There are so many things and Mark Twain, I think, was one of them who talks about we fear so many things in our lives that never really come true, because they're not. We've just created this environment and we're brought up in this environment. That teaches us we should be afraid of things. And I'm not saying you overwhelm fear and it goes away. I'm not saying don't be afraid. I'm saying but you can control how you react to fear and how you use it.

Speaker 2: 27:09

On page 127 of Live Like a Guide Dog, Mike writes this Guide dogs know that when you work with the team you trust you'll be braver than you ever could be on your own. We often feel afraid when we're alone, but trust and teamwork build our bravery. People often asked weren't you afraid referring to 911? Of course I was. But it's not about not being afraid. Rather, it's about not letting fear blind you. Rather, it's about not letting fear blind you.

Speaker 2: 27:47

Roselle, his guide dog, even though she's sometimes cowered during thunderstorms, stayed focused on her work. Dogs live in the moment. I repeat dogs live in the moment. And she didn't waste time thinking about what could have happened, which is a key part of being brave. Let me repeat again Dogs live in the moment. And Roselle didn't waste time thinking about what could have happened, which is a key part of being brave. Instead, she just guided me down the stairs. Roselle trusted me and obeyed when I said forward. I trusted her to guide me down All 1,463 of them.

Speaker 2: 28:49

I listened all the way down the stairs, trying to determine what might be happening next. I focused my fear on helping me to be attentive. What is hot? What is cold? What were people saying, Were they shouting in panic or getting out in an orderly way? I focused on sensing other people on the stairs, reading their actions, even their moods, their fears. I tried to help people calm down and stay on task by simply staying calm myself. Roselle provided both distraction and comfort to many around us. I helped Roselle by constantly praising her Good girl, let's keep going. Good job, Worthy. Worthy to take some thought right now, so good.

Speaker 3: 29:52

How often at night do we take time at the end of the day to look at what happened during the day, to look at what went well, what didn't go well? I'll never use the word failure. It's not necessary nor appropriate, because it's again like visually impaired. It's a term we should get rid of.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Thank you for that. I needed that right now. I appreciate you saying that I'll take it out.

Speaker 3: 30:16

Things that are something that happens to us isn't a failure. It's an opportunity if we take it to at the end of the day, for example, as we're falling asleep step back what happened, why Even the good stuff Could.

Speaker 1: 30:32

I have done it better?

Speaker 3: 30:33

Could I have done it better? You know there's so many things like that that occur. If we start to really work, to analyze what we do during the day, we realize, oh okay, this is what I can do differently. Let me do another example and a comment. First, I used to say because I always listen to my speeches when I travel and speak, I record them and I go back and listen to them. And I used to say I do that because I'm my own worst critic. Nobody's going to be as hard on me, Nobody's going to be as hard on me as I am.

Speaker 3: 31:11

What I learned is wrong thing to say. The reality is don't be negative about it. I'm my own best teacher and if and nobody's going to teach me, I have to teach myself. People can point things out, Teachers in school can tell you things and so on, but you have to really be the one to teach yourself based on what you're told and what you learn. So I'm my own best teacher and so I always listen to speeches and I talk about that, by the way, in Live Like a Guide Dog. I won't give it away, Don't give it away.

Speaker 3: 31:42

Because there are some stories, but what I do is I step back and listen to the speeches and at the end of every day I take time to think about what I do today. What am I afraid of? Why am I afraid of that, and is there anything I can really do about it? Anyway, we had no control over September 11th happening.

Speaker 2: 32:03

And I couldn't have imagined it.

Speaker 3: 32:05

And I can, I still don't. I'm still not convinced that in reality, the government could have figured it out.

Speaker 2: 32:13

Why.

Speaker 3: 32:14

Because a team of 19 people who didn't wish us well kept a secret and pulled off what happened on September 11th. Yeah, teamwork is, is is very important, power important. So I don't know that we could have ever predicted or stopped the events from happening, but each and every person on the planet has control over how we deal with what happened.

Speaker 2: 32:41

I think we have control part of what you're saying. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I do think that is the most critical part.

Speaker 3: 32:47

Yeah, we have. We spend way too much time spreading and fearing rather than moving on. Karen died in November of 2022. Certainly one of the most, if not the most, stressful and upsetting thing that ever happened to me, and I will never forget it. I remember the day, I remember what was happening. She was in the hospital and we were there. But the issue is, I have absolutely a choice of how I deal with it, and I choose to honor her by moving forward, continuing to speak, and so I can travel again. And I choose to honor her by moving forward, continuing to speak, and so I can travel again, and I'm always looking for speaking opportunities. So, if anyone wants, if anybody wants to hire a speaker, you can visit wwwmichaelhingsoncom or email me at speaker at michaelhingsoncom.

Speaker 2: 33:48

There we go. Okay, I will make sure that that is in the notes and everybody gets that, because I think it would be amazing to hear you speak in person.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Well, I'd love to find opportunities and ways, and I will inspire. My job is to add value to any event that I go to and to inspire and to help make it more successful. When I go somewhere, I'm a guest and I believe that I need to behave like a guest.

Speaker 2: 34:15

And Karen will tell you if you don't.

Speaker 3: 34:17

Oh, she will.

Speaker 2: 34:22

The teamwork of Live Like a Guide Dog then. So you're saying you do give us 11 principles that I would love for you to share with us, like if you can just give us those 11 principles. But I'm hearing what I'm hearing most from you that I think is going to be really critical for me. Obviously, I don't have a dog, a guide dog. I don't have a dog in my home anymore either. I lost him and that was very sad. Your team is you and your guide dog, obviously, but teamwork is what makes anything work Teamwork.

Speaker 3: 34:52

And that's really the basic principle that everything comes off of, and I think that's the most important thing to deal with, and I don't know how long ago you lost your dog.

Speaker 2: 35:02

It was, let's see, my son finally left home, 2014,. But my son just lost the dog on the cover of Live Like a Guide Dog looks just like Midas and we just lost Midas to bone cancer and we have all been grieving. He was my first grandpup.

Speaker 3: 35:31

I've never cried that hard in my life, not even for a parent at a funeral. So a veterinarian once told me when I got married to Karen she had a cat named Bo Jangles. And Bo lived a couple of years and then passed. And the veterinarian said a very wise thing. He said look, no one, no cat, no dog will ever replace Bojangles. But you shouldn't really wait a long time to get a new dog or cat in the family, because you'll create new memories. But the other part of it that he didn't say that, I say, is if you really learn how to live with that animal and probably in general, more dogs than cats. Cats are a little bit more independent, but I have a cat now, but I have a cat now and she's very much a part of the life.

Speaker 3: 36:22

What's her name? Her name is Stitch. I love it but what's her name? Her name is stitch. Um, I love it. We. We rescued her because somebody was going to just take her to the pound and we were living in an apartment at the time and we said no, we'll find it a home. And then I asked what the cat's name was and they said the cat's name was stitch. And I realized this cat's going nowhere because karen had been a professional quilter since 1994.

Speaker 2: 36:45

You think that a quilter is going to give up a cat. Yeah, oh my gosh, mike, that's incredible, it's as if she sent Stitch to you.

Speaker 3: 36:54

So well, karen, you know, the people who were going to take her to the pound told us that was her name because the cat belonged to somebody else and the wife had died. The husband was going to go to an assisted living facility and he said take the cat to the pound and his caregiver was going to do that until we said uh-uh. Then I asked what the cat's name was and they said Stitch, and of course that cat's going nowhere with a name like Stitch.

Speaker 2: 37:18

You are mine, you are meant to be.

Speaker 3: 37:21

No, it's the other way around. She took over the house, of course. There you go.

Speaker 2: 37:24

Of course cats do that, don't they?

Speaker 3: 37:26

Stitchy's been with us now for over nine years and does really well. But again, even you know with a cat or a dog, the bottom line is, especially when you're working with dogs that are much more pack animals. They want someone to be the team leader or pack leader. They're looking to us to be the team leader or pack leader. They're looking to us and the bottom line is that if we really establish a relationship with them, we learn how to create rules and they need to obey the rules and adhere to the rules, and they love that.

Speaker 3: 38:01

And there are techniques that you can use to let them know you're very pleased when they follow rules. And there are things that you can use to let them know you're very pleased when they follow rules. And there are things that you can do when they don't follow rules. What you don't do is you don't hit a dog, but you can use a sharp voice to say no or leave it or something like that. You can also give a food reward, like just even a piece of kibble, when they do something right. Teamwork is really the most important thing. Everything stems from that.

Speaker 2: 38:29

I love that. I love that. I don't know if I would have thought you would say that it's kind of a surprise in a way, but I can now understand how you have to work as a team with your guide dog, who is your guide dog right now. Have to work as a team with your guide dog, who is your guide dog right now.

Speaker 3: 38:47

He's a black lab, his name is Alamo and Alamo will be eight years old in May, right?

Speaker 2: 38:54

I saw him walk by the other day.

Speaker 3: 38:56

But I would say something else, and that is that everyone that has a dog has to work as a team, whether they choose to or not. The bottom line is that if we really develop a close-knit relationship with our animals, then when things happen to us, one of the things that we get to do is to rely on them. They know when we're sad, they know when we're frustrated too, and, if we work it right, they help us just as much as we help them.

Speaker 2: 39:27

Oh, I think I almost think more Like I loved my son's relationship with Midas. My son's name is Granny. He's a twin and he had Midas the lab, the golden lab. He didn't wait, he two days later. A couple days later they went and picked out Max. So they now have Max, who is a golden retriever, but his twin sister I love. We say that they are their alter egos, their little, because she has a little golden doodle. So we had this big Midas and we had this little prissy Rosie, and I just can say that they both have such a beautiful relationship, grant, particularly with Midas. There was just so much grief when Midas passed because it's like he wasn't even a dog, he was a person.

Speaker 3: 40:14

You know, it's my first grandpa, so yeah, but again, the bottom line is that the dogs are looking to us for guidance and for direction, looking to us for guidance and for direction, and so anytime anybody says, oh, my dog could never behave like yours, I kind of cringe because yes, they can. If you make that process happen, yeah, what?

Speaker 2: 40:39

makes a great guide dog. If I can ask, I will put in these 11 principles, mike. I will put in these 11 principles, Mike, because I want everybody to know them. But I am loving just hearing you talk about relationship, because I work with families and to me a family is the most important team on the planet.

Speaker 3: 40:59

So what makes a good guide dog Good guide dogs? By the way, the schools primarily breed their own dogs and only at most half make it as a guide dog Right, and the reason only half make it is that not every dog is cut out to do that work. It's very demanding and it's very stressful, and not all dogs can do it. Dogs are good when they don't get distracted by things from the outside, or if they do get distracted. As soon as you tell them to pay attention. However you do that, they go back to doing their work. They're very focused on their work.

Speaker 3: 41:39

That comes from the trust, the relationship that we develop. Dogs, I really do believe, as many people say, love unconditionally. Dogs I really do believe, as many people say, love unconditionally, but dogs do not trust unconditionally. The difference, however, between dogs and people is that dogs unless you really do something traumatic to them, which generally isn't the case, dogs are more open to trust because they're looking for someone to trust, and so when you develop that trusting relationship, it's incredible to see, because both sides work together. So the love may be there, but the trust is something that we both have to earn from each other.

Speaker 2: 42:26

Okay, how do you do that? Is there a way? I mean, do you have a simple?

Speaker 3: 42:31

I don't think that there's anything that is too simple. What you need to do is to develop a relationship where the dog knows you're going to treat it well and it will treat you well the dog well. It's more than just sensing.

Speaker 2: 42:49

It's how you behave with the dog okay, I love this, I train me, I love it so it's all about really recognizing that you want to have this bond.

Speaker 3: 43:01

You do what you can to make it happen, and that means you need to learn what dogs need and what dogs want. They want, as I said, leadership. They want you to provide direction. They want you to provide for them the support that they need. Dogs that run around the house and destroy furniture and all that. Typically, if you do some things differently than you probably do, none of that will happen. So, for example, if I go somewhere and Alamo is not going along even though I absolutely trust Alamo after being with him now for over six years I could just leave the house for a while and Alamo is going to just stay somewhere. So what I do and what people should do with their dogs, especially when they first get them, is to make them aware of what place is theirs, like a crate or something like that. But I can't use the crate with Alamo because there's another person in this house named Stitch who steals the crate most of the time.

Speaker 2: 44:06

Another person in this house named Stitch, who steals the crate most of the time. So we let Stitch have the crate Stitch and Alamo.

Speaker 3: 44:11

Next, I have a tie down leash that is attached to my bed and if I'm going to leave I will tie Alamo down. If I'm not going to take him, but I'm, you know he goes most everywhere I go, but I. But I do tie him down and he's very fine there. He's learned that that's one of his spaces and he's very comfortable. And there are techniques that you can use to train a dog so that if you tie them down and then you start to when you walk out of the room and they start to howl or whatever you can, you can go through a process to train them. No, that's not acceptable behavior. Don't do that. Just be comfortable here. There are lessons to learn big lessons.

Speaker 2: 44:52

I'm hearing lessons under lessons.

Speaker 3: 44:55

Be here be comfortable here stay here but you have to do it in a supportive way, and so it's like any team you know if you work in a company. The best teams are teams where the leaders of the team really learn to understand their people and they, in so doing, learn what best to do, and it's almost sometimes a person by person thing.

Speaker 2: 45:27

Oh, I would think so yeah, I think so For sure.

Speaker 3: 45:29

They learn what to do to be supportive of the people who work for them.

Speaker 2: 45:34

Yeah, it brings to mind Mike a little off topic, but it really does bring to mind, for anyone listening, raising children, because one of the main reasons I decided back in the day to bring my children home and homeschool them was that very reason, because I wanted to know each one of them, I wanted to understand them. I felt like I could best mother them if I got to know them and I feel a lot of echoes from what you're saying with dogs that it's just important on any team, wherever your team is, whatever kind of team it is, for a leader to come and there's that word know again K-N-O-W right To know, maybe not depths, but just to know what each and every person that is a part of that team. If I can ask you, you write that what do you think the most important trait is for a guide dog? Like? What is it trust? Have you already taught us that and shared that?

Speaker 3: 46:38

Well, trait wise, the most important thing is that the dog needs to understand what you expect and carry it out, which also means, then, that you need to communicate it.

Speaker 3: 46:54

I would say, if there's one thing, though, that the dog has to do, and it's probably one of the main reasons a number of dogs don't make it as guide dogs, and that doesn't mean they flunk. That's another thing that people in the guide dog world have learned not to say the dog is flunked, but, as I said, only about half make it, because otherwise they get too distracted or they don't catch on nearly as well as they need to the things that they have to do. My sixth guide dog was a dog named Meryl, and she only worked about 18 months, and then she got afraid of guiding because she couldn't take the stress. Oh wow, for a guide dog is to be able to do its job, focus and do its job and communicate, which they will do to you if they have a problem or how they're feeling, and you have to learn how to read that how, if I can ask how, did you read Meryl's stress Like, how did she, as soon as the harness went on?

Speaker 3: 48:09

as soon as the harness went on, she began panting and she just didn't, didn't want to work. Her head went down. We were up near guide dogs for the blind, where I've gotten my dogs, and we had one of the people come out and he saw the harness going and we went over to a store just to see her guide work and he said, yeah, clearly she's very afraid of of doing it. She just couldn't take the stress. As I describe her, she had a type a personality where she couldn't leave work at the office she wouldn't even she she wouldn't even play with the other dogs at home oh, she was.

Speaker 2: 48:44

She was type A. Oh, my God, bless her heart. Oh, and that's okay. It just wasn't for her right? That's what you're saying. She didn't flunk, she wasn't a failure.

Speaker 3: 48:55

It just wasn't suited to her personality or her capacity Well, but we didn't know that at first, because first she did okay.

Speaker 2: 49:03

No, she's type.

Speaker 3: 49:04

A, the, but the stress was too great. So, as we say, she and other dogs who don't happen to succeed at being a guide dog, our career changed and oh my gosh, this is dogs. That don't to me and dogs that don't make it as a guide dog may go do other things. They may become um dogs that work for smoke or bomb detection or drug detection. They may just go back and live with a family and be a supportive animal. It could be any number of things.

Speaker 2: 49:37

Okay, oh, I love that so much and just before, I mean I could talk to you forever because this is incredibly deep. I feel like it's a deep subject, mike. There's so much here that has to do with being brave and being prepared for difficult situations. I had someone I used to speak a lot to mothers in an organization called Mops because I've been speaking and doing this a long time too and one I was teaching on on courage, I guess and one of the mothers asked well, how would you prepare a child, say, like, I'll use a woman's name, corrie ten Boom, who ended up having to go into you know, she was in the Holocaust and I said I really don't know if I can answer that, but I would say that you begin that in your family.

Speaker 2: 50:30

You begin that by creating a secure, safe environment in which your children feel safe. And because I remember Corey, her story that every morning at 8.15, her clockmaker father, they would sit at the breakfast table as a family and he would just read from the Bible and it was just secure and stable, would you agree with that? Like preparation for us, and even preparation like for going forward is what Fill in that blank.

Speaker 3: 51:01

For me, well, it's also being honest with your children. So, for example, I've heard any number of parents say I certainly wouldn't want my children to hear your story about being in the World Trade Center. It would terrify them. Parents need to be honest with their children. I know how to talk to children and tell part of the story in a non-terrifying way, but to hide something like that from children is not ever a good thing. They need to understand that a bad guy did something that affected a lot of people and that some of those people exist. How do you know them? Well, you know bad guys don't look like bad guys, but you can start to learn about again. Trust, again, again trust. The idea is I've learned to be pretty open to trust and sometimes I have encountered people who seem like they would be very trustworthy and I found that they were not and they would betray my trust. And then I choose to deal with that by not trusting them. But I also I'm not going to let that cause me to be closed to the idea of trusting.

Speaker 3: 52:25

But, every time something like that happens, it's another lesson about a particular type of individual and why you can't trust them, and then it also teaches me more about the kinds of people who I can trust and work with. Do you just?

Speaker 2: 52:40

sense that, Mike? I mean, do you sense it? Or do you just work with someone and then they betray you and you go okay, well, this and that and the other, what is it that you?

Speaker 3: 52:49

probably a little of all of that, just like it is for you, it's no different for me.

Speaker 3: 52:52

No, no, I know it isn't, but but it all starts with at least being open to trust. And no matter what happens, you don't allow yourself to be closed to the idea of trust, and we see that so much today. Heck, our politicians are always saying trust me, and too often without any rational evidence, people say, well, this guy talks to me and I'm going to believe him. Why, you know? Look at all the evidence. And it doesn't matter who it is. It's all a matter of a lot of the political people are doing their best to foment fear, which is why I hope Live Like a Guide Dog. The political people are doing their best to foment fear, which is why I hope Live Like a Guide Dog will help people maybe step back and analyze who they hear and what they hear and do a better job of analyzing and thinking for themselves All right.

Speaker 2: 53:39

Why do you say the command forward is the most important command for a guide dog? I'm so intrigued.

Speaker 3: 53:45

Because it's just the most important thing and concept that we all have. It's moving forward, right? The idea is that it starts with me telling the guide dog to go forward. So what happens when I tell a guide dog to go forward? Well, a couple of things. One it doesn't move, or it goes forward. I say forward and the dog kind of curves to the left or to the right. Now, having said all of that, let's look at each of those individually.

Speaker 3: 54:13

If I tell the dog to go forward and the dog goes forward, great, because the sidewalk's clear or whatever is clear. If I tell the dog to go forward and the dog doesn't move, then that's one of the cues that I get that there's something blocking our way. Also, typically I can hear things in front of me and I will still tell the dog to go forward because I want the dog to decide whether it can go around whatever is in front of me, like a parked car in a driveway, and the dog can turn left or right to go around the car and continue. That's okay. Or the dog won't move, which tells me that I need to do a better job or a different job of looking around and figuring out what's going on.

Speaker 3: 54:57

But forward is the most basic command. But the reality is for any of us, we need to always work to go forward in our lives. So forward is as much as important for me and you and all of us as anything else and that's why, as I said, I don't move beyond Karen. I move forward with Karen.

Speaker 2: 55:17

I know I love that and we just need to move forward, keep moving forward, and that's definitely something said in the therapeutic world as well. You know, next day, next step, next movement, what's the next thing? Yeah, it's beautiful, so beautiful. Mike, you are an amazing human. Thank you for giving us this time. I'm so grateful I didn't get to see Alamo in the back today. I don't know where he is, but oh, he's over here on his bed.

Speaker 2: 55:45

Okay, well, hello to Alamo and to Stitchy, and I just can't wait. I can't wait for this to come out and for you to be able to keep sharing your message, and I will just put your information everywhere.

Speaker 3: 55:58

I appreciate that. And again, if people want to explore having me come and speak, just send an email to speaker at Michael Hingson M-I-C-H-A-E-L-H-I-N-G-S-O-N dot com or visit the website wwwmichaelhingsoncom. And oh, by the way, we mentioned the podcast, which again is called Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. It's available wherever podcasts can be found, or you can go to wwwmichaelhingsoncom slash podcast Podcast and all 214 episodes are there.

Speaker 2: 56:32

Yes, I have a guest for you. I'm going to give you her name.

Speaker 3: 56:36

She is phenomenal.

Speaker 2: 56:37

She is phenomenal and I think she would be a great guest for your podcast.

Speaker 3: 56:43

Well, thank you.

Speaker 2: 56:44

I will just say once again thank you, Thank you so much my pleasure.

Speaker 2: 56:53

Oh, heartlifter, thank you. Thank you for being with me for 300 episodes. Oh, my goodness, a round of applause for everyone involved in keeping this podcast Moving Up, podcast Mountain. The little engine that could, michael Hinkson, could not have been. He's just the best guest for today's special episode.

Speaker 2: 57:17

In his book Live Like a Guide Dog, I promised you that I would share with you the 11 principles that he brings to us in this incredibly heartwarming, heartlifting, inspiring, highly practical book. Each of the chapters it brings us a lesson from one of his guide dogs. Chapter one is Squire. Squire teaches awareness, builds confidence. Holland, part one preparation prevents panic. Holland, part two flexibility and faith move you forward. Klondike teaches us perseverance strengthens your spirit. Linny empathy builds courageous connections.

Speaker 2: 58:11

Roselle Roselle, the dear protagonist of Thunderdog. Part one of Roselle is trust and teamwork, build bravery. Part two listening to God banishes isolation. Not quite sure I've ever heard that put that way, but then, michael, he has a way, like nobody else I have interviewed, to put things into perspective. Meryl, rest rejuvenates our courage. Well, that takes a pause, doesn't it? Rest rejuvenates our courage. Africa, oh, what a great name. Faith drives out fear. Fantasia, fantasia. Your instincts will protect you. Alamo forward gets you unstuck. Just so good he goes into these topics after the epilogue the courtesy rules of blindness, disability as part of being human and within the grace of God. I cannot recommend Michael's book more and, as I said to my husband last night, we need to bring him to our area for a prayer breakfast or for some gathering, because I have no doubt in my mind that he is a highly inspirational, motivational, tell the truth kind of speaker that all of us in today's world could use a little bit more of.

Speaker 2: 59:53

And in closing, in honor of this 300th episode, I have heart-lifting boxes full of goodies and prizes from many of our guests that have been on the show waiting. They're just waiting to come to your doorstep. So what do you have to do to possibly be a winner of one of these goodie boxes? Well, over on Instagram at Janelle Rairdon, you'll see the beautiful 300th episode anniversary graphics that I've created for this monumental.

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

I'm just proud that I have actually stuck with this through the good, the bad and the ugly, and I'm just proud of myself in all the right ways, you know, kind of like when God finished creating the world not that this is any comparison whatsoever, but he stood back and he went this is good, this is good, oh, this is good. And then, when he created man and woman human beings, he said this is very good. They call that good pride, good pride in all the right ways. I call that good pride, good pride in all the right ways. So all you have to do to win one of these beautiful, heartlifting boxes of goodies is pop on over to Instagram, like I said, and share.

Speaker 2: 1:01:16

Share your favorite podcast moment or your favorite podcast guest Perhaps it was a favorite book that was interviewed just share a special today's heart lift with janelle moment and share that by friday, november 29th, black friday, by midnight, and I'll announce the winners on sunday. Sunday, december 1st, the first, first Sunday of Advent. What a great way to kick off Advent. Heartlifters, you mean the world to me and I'm so very, very grateful to have had 300 amazing conversations with you. May there be many, many more Until next time.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

Thanks for listening today. Please meet Janelle over at Heart Lift Central on Substack at Heart Lift Central, where we can keep this remarkable conversation going. Please share today's episode with a friend and invite them to become stronger every day. Heart lifter, always remember this you have value, worth and dignity.