Today's Heartlift with Janell
Sometimes the story we tell ourselves is not really true. Sometimes the story others tell about us is not really true. On "Today's Heartlift with Janell," Author, Trauma-informed, board-certified marriage and family specialist, and Professional Heartlifter, Janell Rardon, opens conversations about how emotional health and mental fitness effects absolutely every area of our lives. When we possess and practice healthy, strong, resilient emotional health practices, life is so much better. Read Janell's newest book, "Stronger Every Day: 9 Tools for an Emotionally Healthy You."
Today's Heartlift with Janell
309. Navigating a Family Crisis with Compassion and Care with Dr. Jennifer S. Ripley
This episode delves into the pivotal role of mothers and family members in navigating crises with compassion and care. Join Janell and Jennifer S. Ripley, author of "Ministering to Families in Crisis: The Essential Guide for Nurturing Mental and Emotional Health," discussing the importance of nurturing in building resilient family systems.
• Highlighting the power of nurturing in family dynamics.
• Sharing personal stories of compassion and connection in families.
• The importance of recognizing and addressing family crises.
• Drawing parallels between Rembrandt's artwork, "The Storm on the Sea of Galilee," and family responses.
• Encouraging families to seek professional support when needed.
• Expanding the definition of family beyond traditional structures.
• Concluding with an invitation to practice empathy and engagement within families.
"Visio Divina, sacred seeing, is an ancient form of prayer that continues to be a powerful method of meditation. Art becomes the sacrament that opens our hearts to the indwelling Spirit of God. The visible makes the invisible present in a palpable way.
Any piece of art can be the subject of reflection. It doesn't need to be religious art; however, reflecting on icons has been practiced since ancient times. The steps of Visio Divina are similar to those of Lectio Divina, which I wrote about last week."
Read more: Visio Divina
Order Jennifer's new, comprehensive guide: Ministering to Families in Crisis
Learn more about Renovare and Spiritual Direction
Learn more about The Charis Institute
Begin Your Heartlifter's Journey:
- Visit and subscribe to Heartlift Central on Substack. This is our new online coaching center and meeting place for Heartlifters worldwide.
- Download the "Overcoming Hurtful Words" Study Guide PDF: BECOMING EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY
- Meet me on Instagram: @janellrardon
- Leave a review and rate the podcast: WRITE A REVIEW
- Learn more about my books and work: Janell Rardon
- Make a tax-deductible donation through Heartlift International
As I've listened to the stories of thousands of women of all ages in all kinds of stages through the years, I've kept their stories locked in the vault of my heart. I feel as if they've been walking around with me all through these years. They've bothered me, they've prodded me and sometimes kept me up at night. Ultimately, they've increased my passion to reframe and reimagine the powerful positions of mother and matriarch within the family system. I'm a problem solver, so I set out to find a way to perhaps change the trajectory of this silent and sad scenario about a dynamic yet untapped source of potential and purpose sitting in our homes and churches. It is time to come to the table, heartlifters, and unleash the power of maternal presence into the world. Welcome to Mothering for the Ages, our 2025 theme. Here on today's Heartlift.
Speaker 1:I'm Janelle. I am your guide here on this heartlifting journey. I invite you to grab a pen, a journal and a cup of something really delicious. Grab a pen, a journal and a cup of something really delicious. May today's conversation give you clarity, courage and a revived sense of camaraderie. You see, you're not on this journey alone. We are unified as heartlifters and committed to bringing change into the world, one heart at a time. Hello, heartlifters, I am so excited today to bring you Jennifer Ripley Dr Ripley, but I guess I can call you Jennifer. Hello, jennifer, welcome.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello, how are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm doing so well and Jennifer is just a hop skip and a jump from me. How are you today? I'm doing so well and Jennifer is just a hop skip and a jump from me. We are in the same area and one day we will meet for coffee, tea or something, hopefully, because I feel like we both have a passion for ministering to families in crisis. I have done that, but I'm moving forward into some other areas. As you well know, heartlifters, this book, ministering to Families in Crisis, the essential that word is correctly placed the essential guide for nurturing mental and emotional health. This is a title after my own heart, especially with that word nurturing. So just a short little peek behind the window of your publishing journey. Why was nurturing so important to put in this book that ministers to families in crisis?
Speaker 2:I think that what we're doing is a type of ministerial care. It's kind of like the old pastoral care would be, but in the current age we really do all minister to each other in a community, right In a church, in an extended family. There is an opportunity to be there in that moment and I've had difficult moments in my own life. Be there in that moment and I've had difficult moments in my own life and I can tell you a caring, loving, nurturing person that sits in the balcony at church with me, or who you know, notices me and says hey, I see something going on with you. Would you like to get some coffee? I'd like to pray for you in the right moment. Yeah, it's just all the difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that happened to you. Absolutely it did. Okay, I love that Bravo to whoever noticed.
Speaker 2:Yes, I shout out to Kelly. I call it. There's a Kelly story that Kelly was sitting in the balcony and she we weren't even really close friends, but she saw me, like tearing up during service, you know, and she just said hey, I saw you, Would you like to get some? You know, some time together we can sit on my back porch. And man, the tears came and she caught them. She caught them.
Speaker 1:And that was so we can sit on my back porch yeah, that's. I think that's the wave. I feel like that's the wave that the Holy Spirit is trying to encourage all of us to surf upon. It definitely was foundational in my life after becoming a follower of Christ, my senior year in college. I can't tell you how many tables kitchen tables I sat at with wiser women, and back porches I sat on, and I know, for me, I have totally gotten away from that, having a more public ministry. It's like you know, the stage has become the back porch and et cetera, et cetera and I think COVID stripped me of that for sure being housed and locked down for I would say, two and a half years, honestly, or three, and for me, it took me a while to come back out. I think that is what the Holy Spirit is inviting each one of us to do more of to be a Kelly, to be someone who notices you said the word right, I mean, that's everything. How many times do we just flurry in the hallways of our churches or we used to, you know to get here, get there, get the kids here, get that. So it's just helping everyone. Excuse me, understand, as you say, establishing hope amid the storm of family crisis.
Speaker 1:I couldn't get past the first paragraph of this book, chapter one. I couldn't get past it. Number one I love art and artwork speaks to my soul. And, jennifer, you write about this beautiful but now stolen artwork of Rembrandt the storm on the Sea of Galilee. I just wrote you had me with the first paragraph. As you can see, it is underlined. It is not just a score.
Speaker 2:I want Alexio.
Speaker 1:Divina it. I want to get it. You encourage us. I'm going to get to that, to look at it, get it online, look at it, spend some time with it, and I'll probably close with that. Tell me why this piece of artwork, it's in your home. Why did it arrest your attention, especially as a marriage and family therapist, but also as a woman, as a mother?
Speaker 2:That's right as a woman, as a mother, so this is part of my COVID journey as well. So I was stuck in my house also for a really long time and you know you're fine for about three months and then you start to kind of hit, just feeling alone and dark. And you know, and so the Renovare ministry, actually, if you know them out in Colorado, they had a kind of like a group spiritual direction class very short, almost like three classes with somebody, and the person who led that class did a meditation on that artwork. Oh well, I'm going to look in the files you have to. It was wonderful. I've done it with my students now in the files you have to. It was wonderful, I've done it with my students now in the classroom as a short version of it.
Speaker 2:But very quickly you really can put the artwork up on your computer and then look at each of the characters and consider which one of these is me in difficult times. One of them is like retching over the side of the ship in difficult times. One of them is like retching over the side of the ship. One is like holding the mask trying to. You know I'm going to like make it happen. You know, we're going to get this ship to the other side, everybody. So there's people having all these different reactions Rembrandt was just brilliant.
Speaker 2:And there's Jesus down in the bottom of the boat, just lit up barely, you can see him and it's like he just woke up, you know. And everyone's around him going, hello, why are you asleep, right, jesus? When are you going to wake up? So it was really a good meditation to go through, and I think that's how you feel when your family goes through a crisis of various types. You feel like, and it's and they're happening in a group too. So in a family, you'll have one person who's like, I guess we're just going to sit here and do nothing because nothing's going to work, and another person who says, okay, we need to get a therapist and we need to get a medical doctor and we need to get let's, let's fix this, let's fix this. You know, yeah, exactly. And but do we stop and go sit?
Speaker 2:And so the thing that was so moving and meaningful I will never forget about, what God told me in the midst of this particular meditation was what do you, what do you want, jen? You know like, like, I'm saying what do you want in this moment. And I went and I sat down next to Jesus and I just took his hand. I said I just want your hand. Oh wow, it was very moving. It still moves me when I can see, remember it, and just a sense like when times are difficult. What do I need? I just need Jesus with me. I need to know that I am not alone and Jesus is with me. I am not alone and Jesus is with me.
Speaker 1:I want my heartlifters to really hear that you took the time to go sit and contemplate, we would say, in the spiritual formation practices, right, to just open your palms, open your heart open, make the space. Oh, and I see the tear coming down your eye. It's so precious. Oh, to just wait and that is what we're trying to do in this community is really to activate these practices of silence, stillness, solitude, which seem to be coming into fruition again. But in our very active, busy churches we don't do a lot of this, unless perhaps you are in a more liturgical church setting. And so you took the time to exhale, to go sit with that image in your mind and the Holy Spirit said Jesus said what do you want right now? What do you need right now? Do you need right now and you had the wherewithal to go, I just need to hold your hand. So you needed some somatic work. You needed some, you know, touching right, right that's right, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and having that strong sense of like right here, my hand is available at any moment, always available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Isn't that what we all really, really want? You know, I share a lot. I've had a lot of time in hospitals in the last decade with my mother, my daughter, myself, my husband, just lots and lots. And it's that chapel inside the hospital, you know where you just can find, you really can find that quiet moment. And I just had one and I asked my question was what am I missing?
Speaker 2:What am I missing?
Speaker 1:And it's typically just a question, it's a thought. It's never audible. It hasn't been audible for me. It's just a welling, like I saw your tears welling up. It's this welling of oh. So this isn't comfortable for everyone, it's not something that a lot of us have been trained in. So I appreciate you sharing, beyond this story, how you went and and took this time to sit at his feet to be the Mary you know and I'm real good at being Martha too.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm Martha girl, I am. So when, when the Mary moments come, you know it's, it's memorable, it's memorable, I get you.
Speaker 1:I know Dang it, but you're right. Being a capable minister to families is like being a qualified sailor. You are skilled in sailing various storms and sea conditions. I love this metaphor. Are you a qualified sailor or did you just dive in pun intended to seeing those images in Rembrandt's painting and going boy? That's really a family in crisis. It really is, because he captures all the different personalities. So how is the question then, a capable minister to families and I consider moms and dads ministers to their families being a qualified sailor? How is that the same? Explain that to me.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. So, yes, the first minister for every family is the parents in the family, or it's supposed to be, and that would be God's ideal for us. So that is our role is to be disciple makers to our kids. And so, if you are a parent or an aunt, you know aunts and uncles have their role as grandparents, obviously. In fact, there's some research that says grandmothers are one of the primary ways that children come to know the Lord.
Speaker 1:I have heard that. Send me that research, please. I have heard that Lacey Finn Borgo, another guest who's an incredible spiritual director and she's part of Renovare. Actually I know of her, but, um, she shared that with me as well. I've just become a grandmother, so five little ones. In the last two and a half years they my children just decided we're all gonna have children so the same time, all the same time.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be so much fun when they're all 16.
Speaker 1:You're going to love that I am. They live all over the place, but we will gather yes. So, grandmothers particularly, is definitely a heartbeat of mine, of course now, and just as being a mother was. So why a qualified sailor? What does that call?
Speaker 2:me to be. So one of the things as a psychologist that I've learned is that there is research and there are experts who have worked in particular areas to help people with a variety of types of crises. Most of us in our personal life will face a crisis once or maybe twice in your life, right, so you're not going to face every crisis as a family. I hope. Thank the Lord, yes, thank. What we did for this book is we put together myself and another psychologist and a spiritual formation, theologian. There's three editors and we said, okay, what are the issues that we think families face and let's find some good experts so that when you face a mental health crisis and you've never done that before you can read the chapter by Steve Grasovich, who is a psychiatrist who loves Jesus and does ministry with the church, often in Christian communities, on mental illness.
Speaker 1:Let me throw in here. Thank you, I would not have been able to pronounce, grisovich. Here are the contents. I want you to hear this because I want you to take this to your church. Leadership for sure, but here are. There are many, so I'm just going to run through them. Leadership, for sure, but here are, there are many, so I'm just going to run through them. Establishing hope amid the storm of family crisis. Spiritual formation, which these first two chapters are the ones we're going to talk about today, because I couldn't get past them. Strategies to discern marriage and family health and functioning Well, if we can get to that amazing. Care and support of families impacted by mental illness. Honestly, I think it's rare to find a family not impacted, not that's right In the day and age that we're living in. Lgbtq plus issues in marriage ministry so many yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we all have friends, if not, yeah.
Speaker 1:We have to be qualified sailors. We know I have to know how to navigate that as a follower of Jesus, as a person who is in a church, because families are dealing with this. Ministering to families when children come out Very much a part of that Domestic violence church ministry. We know that COVID made domestic violence heighten, heighten and go through the roof. Handling divorce as a ministry leader Tutorial from a family lawyer I, yes, yes, yes. You know, as a marriage and family therapist, how critical that is. We typically don't receive clients. If things are going well, you know, it's lovely and they do come for just checkups, but it's rare.
Speaker 1:Families affected by disability by Ryan Wolf, amazing Screens, children and teens the challenges are real and you can help. Oh my gosh, this is so comprehensive. Adults and screens Hello, race discrimination and stress. Ministering to families in poverty and financial crisis right around the corner in my neck of the woods. The challenge of helping couples in conflict. Sign me up. My husband and I came from alcoholic homes. We did not know how to deal with conflict. We're just learning that now, after 40 years of marriage, trauma in families, ministering when the unimaginable happens and it does. It does Ministry to blended families, families and addictions. Yes, families, aging and caregiving. I mean yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm old enough to have actually lived through each one of these chapters, so thank you for the comprehension that you have given to this, to all of these chapters. So thank you for the comprehension that you have given to this, to all of these needs. So getting back to that again, being a qualified sailor just means I don't have to be an expert. You brought in the experts.
Speaker 2:Right, we brought in people who can say, hey, this is what is common to happen. If you're going through trauma and you have numbing and you have experiences of wanting to just run away from it all, then that is normal, this is a common experience, right, and so helping people to understand what's common, what kinds of things that they can expect to see, and how they can try to respond to each other within the family or within the church community A little more skilled way, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which, in turn, you know, for myself, I am going to turn to an expert, because there are just so many things happening in the world today. You know it's like you can't. You can't know everything. And navigating a family and raising children Good Lord, I think of my. You know it's like you can't. You can't know everything. And navigating a family and raising children Good Lord, I think of my. You know my children, who are going to have to navigate the just the screen issue, just the screen issue. I did not navigate that when I was raising my children. Might have to have you back just for that, because I know that that's.
Speaker 2:We have a great chapter on that. Yeah, kathy Koch is well-known and speaks frequently as an educational mentor, psychologist, and she had great, very practical ideas for families. Because you know, you go to the doctor and the doctor just says don't let them watch TV or screens more than an hour a day. Right, and that's right, it'll ruin them. You'll ruin them.
Speaker 1:You'll ruin them Too late, you're already ruined.
Speaker 2:You know they're three years old and you're already. You know you're toast. I know, I know we're toast Right, we get, we've had it. But what she does is she gives it a bit of a Christian discipleship understanding. How do we disciple the kids in our lives? And then there's a chapter for the adults among us, too, right, and one for the kids. Arlene Pelican wrote the adult one Experts in these topics to have very practical how do we disciple children? And then, how do we steward this technology that we're living with as Christians and have an understanding of it and a little bit of exhortation from them, but not so much that you just like, oh, forget it, I've ruined my kid, I've ruined my life, I might as well give up.
Speaker 1:So it was very encouraging.
Speaker 2:It was very encouraging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a tease because I can. Just I know if I was listening to this I'd be like tell me, okay, so we will address that. I will address that over on Instagram, give you tips and on my sub stack Central. So just a little invitation because we can't get it all inside of this short time that we have with Jennifer because this book is so comprehensive. But I will do my best. You write being part of a family. No one enters the world without a family.
Speaker 1:The family ministry stereotype includes images of a young couple with little children. Everyone looks perfect oh, we sure do on the gram. The images convey tranquility, order, relational perfection, void of tension, conflict or sorrow. The concept of family is complicated, even messy, and I underlined this. It transcends the boundaries of the nuclear unit, extending far beyond the confines of a singular household. You have grandparents raising children, single parents, foster families in your church. Even those who attend church alone have family members somewhere. One pastor said this was daunting, but I can get it daunting, and I, but I can get it. I haven't seen a quote, normal, typical, end quote family come to my church in years.
Speaker 1:Talk to me, I can read the rest, but I think I would love for you to talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that happens, even even the families that look like, oh, there's a mom and a dad and three kids. If you sit down and you talk with them for a little bit, you find out you know his parents divorced. She grew up in foster care. For a little bit, they've got a you know a nephew who they're worried about, is in jail. You know, like, just extend the family out a little bit. If you don't have something like that happening with a disability or a mental health problem or poverty or something, that would be an extremely rare family, right. So I go back in my own family. I just have to go back to my mother grew up in poverty and didn't have enough to eat often, right, and that has an effect on her and our family long term, even though she was able to protect me from that and I didn't have to, but she did, and so you just have those kinds of experiences in the family that get passed down and they have legacies. Yeah, we do have legacies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do have legacies and we know now with epigenetics, we know now that you, your egg was in your mother and in the grandmother, and I mean we know all of these things. So extended families, expansive embrace was what I underlined here. I'll just read this Regardless of one's life journey, la la la. Here I'll just read this Regardless of one's life journey, la la la.
Speaker 1:While contemporary society often emphasizes the nuclear family structure, the true richness of familial experience lies in the extended family's expansive embrace. So I just got back from spending time with my daughter and my son-in-law and sweet baby June, who's six weeks plus and I see that sentence in real life, right, right, and then I'll fly to Kansas to be with my son daughter-in-law. Well, my daughter-in-law's got a whole Midwest family, so that's a whole new thing for me because I'm basically was raised East Coast. You know, my son-in-law that I just got back was from California and then my other daughter lives in Belgium. Her husband's Uruguayan, from South America. So it's like it's all coming into an expanded understanding of my role as a mother. But my role as a grandmother and mother-in-law, holy, moly, moly.
Speaker 2:It's a lot to navigate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot to navigate. I have to be a qualified sailor and I have heard so many mamas of adult children going where's my book? Someone help me navigate adult parenting, you know. Right, right, right, and I feel like this is a great book. This is so helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's a lot of great books out there, but often it's an entire book on a topic right, that's correct, so you'll get a big 300 pages on it.
Speaker 2:And in real life, for most of us, if I can get a chapter written, I mean read, on a topic that is pressing to me, I'm doing pretty good in the real world and I'm a professor, right, you know, like that's kind of reading, is kind of my thing, and you wrote the book right, exactly so. So I, so I'm sympathetic to that experience of like, if you are a mama, you're an aunt, you're a grandma, you're a mother-in-law, you know, or you're a dad listening to this, then you know how do you minister and such of a heart to do that right. You want to be that blessing to the next generation.
Speaker 1:Say it, generation Say it please say it, say it again and again, and again.
Speaker 2:You want to be that blessing. You want to have wise words to say when they say hey, my child has ADHD and I am so frustrated with the school system. What do I do?
Speaker 1:I'm struggling with a disability.
Speaker 2:Where do I even start? And you want to have something to offer and have some common wisdom for them. So that's why we found these really great experts who could help us out. Or you end up with a step family in the family. We had that happen in my extended family where we were like, oh okay, well, the rules change in stepfamilies and things don't work the same as in a biological or growing up together family. So we all had to learn about it and I went out and read things about stepfamilies and I'm a family psychologist because I wanted to be a better aunt and a better sister.
Speaker 2:That's what I want.
Speaker 1:I love that is what I love so much. What you just said I wanted to be a better aunt and a better sister. That's what I want. I love that is what I love so much. What you just said I wanted to be a better aunt. I wanted to be a better sister. I wanted to be a better mother. I want to be a better grandmother.
Speaker 1:I love that word better. I love it so much because it's just a mindset. It's like the better mindset. We don't have to be the best, even though Paul does encourage us to be excellent and I write a lot about that in one of my books, can't remember but it's a heart that is set on being Christ-like. Is there any other way to say it? That's right. So you really encourage Jennifer, which is, uh, I mean, just look at all these Compassion, because I feel like, uh, I can be, uh, I don't. I know I can be a grudge holder. No, I can be a grudge holder. I can be judgy, very judgy. And I feel like more so now, as an adult parent, a parent of adult children we still can't find the right term. They're not really children, but they're adults, and what do we call them? But you're right, but you're right.
Speaker 1:Our voyage back in that sailing terminology begins with a simple yet profound call to compassionate ministry. No-transcript. We have a sacred duty to extend compassionate care to those navigating the turbulent seas of family crisis. Why did you focus in on compassionate care?
Speaker 2:You know, that is the major description of who God is right. He is compassionate, slow to anger and compassionate, right. That is his description. And it's really easy in a family to go to anger. It's really easy to go to judgment, right? We all can very much say, oh well, you shouldn't have done that. Now you let your kid watch too much tv, you know, and too many screens, and that's why they have adhd, and just you know, so sorry for you. And simply judging each other's too many screens and that's why they have ADHD, and just you know, so sorry for you and siblings judging each other's parenting.
Speaker 1:That's that's that's where we're talking about the ripples effects, right as a family navigates all of this newness and these new relationships, and then it just goes down to siblings and how each might really parent differently.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And just to have compassion on that, you know, and I was, I was the big sister as a kid who was not compassionate. This was really a sermon to myself. Honestly, tell us, please talk to us. It's real. You know, my little brothers, they were just not. I had three younger brothers and it's so easy to just kind of be.
Speaker 2:You know they just, I know what I'm doing and they don't. You know, had boy, I think I caused, but I think I caused some pain in their lives. You know, I added to difficulties in their lives. And just such a redemptive moment when my brother went through some of his becoming a step family experience.
Speaker 2:He came to me and being able to love with compassion was a redemptive moment for me, really very hard. And I am here for you. I will do anything for you. I got my voice, you know. I got my ears open. I'm happy and I can't take the pain away, but I can hold your hand, like Jesus does, you know, and I can sit with you and I can be a part of your life.
Speaker 2:And fortunately he only lives an hour away, so I actually do get to be a part of his life frequently, and so I think that for all of us in our family we can have these moments where we look back and go. You know what I kind of think? I was kind of judgy, you know. I was kind of, or I was distant, like I saw you struggling. Oh yeah, my, you know your kid or your aunt or your uncle or your grandparent, even you saw them struggling and you just no, it's not my problem, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not my monkey not my circus right, exactly, exactly and but having a wise understanding of how to be compassionate and to step in when it's appropriate to offer what you can, living in your limitations.
Speaker 2:I think that that's really super important for a family to do and a church family to do, because this is not just our, our biological family or, you know, legal families married in kind of stuff. This is also a church family, can be that kind of connection where you are sisters and brothers to each other.
Speaker 1:I think it's expansive. I'll use that word again. You know it's just being a servant of Christ who is equipped at any moment, as Paul encourages us, be instant, in season and out right. And so, you know, on many respects the neighborhood I walk in becomes an extended family. Respects the neighborhood I walk in becomes an extended family. You know I'm not intricately involved, but someone might stop and talk to me about something they're going through. That happens all the time.
Speaker 1:I was recently in a conversation with a woman who had never, ever, had addiction touch her family until COVID. After all those years of lockdown, someone went to addiction and so we're in a post-COVID world. So I'm really curious and if I'm overstepping you just say too personal, don't want to talk about it. But how, when, where and why did the awakening come to you that you were judgy or were bossy or whatever with your siblings and you're like, oh wait, a minute, I need to add some compassion into my siblinging, which is not a word or just compassion in general, because a lot of our personalities are. You know, it depends on our personality. How was that in your life? How was that evolution of like? I need to practice more compassion in my relationships.
Speaker 2:That was a long way to get to that question. I do have to probably credit a little bit of my in-laws as well. I've been married for over 30 years and my husband's family had a redemptive story. They came out of addiction and such as a family a really redemptive story, and there is a lot of compassion. They're not perfect people either.
Speaker 1:We're not going to be ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I think one thing if you have people you know who've come out of addiction, there's a kind of like we we're not going to fake it here, we we're not going to pretend like we have it all together. We're not going to be the perfect family, we're just happy to be a family and not to have split up over that. I think that my husband carries with him.
Speaker 2:That has rubbed off on me, so it's really kind of a slow, slow evolution away from let's try to be perfect and do everything right and like if you're not, then I'm going to judge you to. And that, that spirit still, that temptation still.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I can do it in a second, right In a minute.
Speaker 2:It's right there, able and capable to being able to have that compassionate response and that, like ah, I can empathize with what it feels like to lose something, to miss something, to fail at something.
Speaker 1:That's the word, isn't?
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 1:Empathy, and I think I had a little formula in my head which none of this is a formula, but it's brokenness. So I would assume that his family experienced intense brokenness and contrition and contrition, and that leads to humility, which leads to gratitude, which leads to I can't be so hard on everybody else because, yeah, I just think it's the beautiful process of, as you say in the book, spiritual formation. And if our, like my husband and I, were talking this morning, you know it is the hard places it is. We've been reading through 1 Corinthians 13, through every version. He started it without me knowing it. When I found out, I'm like, why am I not involved in this? And it's life-changing, it is changing my life, because you cannot read that chapter the love, chapter 1 Corinthians 13, and even live it for 24 hours, eight hours, six. Love is kind? No, it's not. No, love is patient. Don't think so. You know, when I was a child, I put away child things. Did I, did I? I don't know? I'm still acting pretty childish. I mean, we've just laughed and really, you know it's like, oh, but this morning was, you know, putting away the suffering that you know when you've been wronged, which is what we're talking about here, and so I would love, in our short time together here, to go into chapter two a bit. Now. You weren't the primary author, I don't think it gives credence to one of your other authors, but I just want to give an understanding for everyone listening, a renewed understanding, because I feel like you all really put down the foundational role of the family in a brilliant way. I will be using this, I will be quoting from this. It's just brilliant.
Speaker 1:The giant sequoia trees in California, it's written, are Diane wrote this right, am I right, diane Chandler? Yeah, yeah, are an unspeakable sight to behold. I've seen them. Giant sequoias can grow upward of 300 feet, which is 26 stories, produce 18 to 24 inch bark and live between 2,000 and 3,000 years. Oh, my goodness, the Muir Forest in California is incredible.
Speaker 1:What accounts for their stability and longevity? I want to know this. I want an Isaiah 61 family that has been raised up from the ruins. Okay, one would think that sequoias retain deep roots to help them withstand unfavorable conditions. Surprisingly, they lack a tap root, which then their root system is between 12 to 14 feet beneath the ground, relatively shallow considering their height, but these roots reach out Listen to this laterally 100 to 200 feet and occupy up to one acre of earth. Come on, diane, thank you. Their secret and individual sequoias trees root system is interconnected with the root systems of other sequoias. Okay, what is a family, jennifer, and why is that the metaphor that Diane chose? If you would speak, because you were all involved in this- yeah, absolutely yeah, powerful, so powerful.
Speaker 2:I love that metaphor that she chose as well, because it really helps you remember that you are not just a tree standing in an empty lot somewhere with all the buildings around you, and you're all alone. Really, we all live in a family together, and this interconnected root system can be nourishing to each other, it can be growth oriented and it can be healthy. Or we can, you know, bring disease to each other. Essentially right, we can bring harshness to each other and harm to each other, and so I think that metaphor works so well in terms of thinking about the family and how spiritual formation can fit. That chapter is on spiritual formation. How do we grow a healthy mirror woods? If you've ever walked in mirror woods or seen pictures, it's gorgeous there.
Speaker 2:And the ability to yeah, the ability for families to build something beautiful like that with a little cultivation right, A little bit of experts. They do have tree experts that come through there.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, right, yeah, definitely. And you know rangers and park rangers and all of those things. It takes work. It does take work. I love that. Give me some practical tips, give me some nuts and bolts, if you would, because you do in the book to maybe just one thing that we as women aunts, mothers, grandmothers let's focus in on the mother. Where do I start? I've listened to this. I've recognized, yeah, I'm judgy. I've recognized, yeah, I'm judgy. Hmm, yeah, I'm holding a grudge, or my children are grudging each other and it's paining my heart. I must have done something wrong. Where did I go wrong? So now we're judging ourselves and our parenting? Where?
Speaker 2:do we start Help? Yeah, where do we start? Yeah, I think I would start first of all with sitting for a moment and saying there's a storm, let's call a spade a spade here, let's if I can mix metaphors, there's a real storm here. This is what the storm is. We're going through a change. We're going through a change, we're going through a move, we're going through a health problem, or we've finally decided to give a name to the disability that you know mom, dad, child has, or whatever's happening.
Speaker 1:Right, and here we are Adult child is coming out. An adult child or adult child is coming out, a married adult, child, correct.
Speaker 2:Exactly All these things happen in families, they happen to everybody. And being able to say, okay, let's recognize the storm. And then let's ponder what do I usually do whenever I'm in a storm? How do I usually handle it? Where do I need to go for help? And I say to go to Jesus first. There's a comfort there and there is a compassion there that is available to us at 2 am and at 2 pm and all day and all night. And then God gives us each in the larger communities that we live in, that we can go to, whether that's pastoral care or psychological care or medical care if it's needed, so that we can flourish and we can grow those Muirwood trees right. And the best we can Doesn't mean disease isn't going to come, doesn't?
Speaker 2:mean storms aren't going to come through and knock a tree down now and then and make difficulty, but the root system goes on right. Yes, the boat goes on. If I can mix metaphors again, no, they're great metaphors.
Speaker 1:They're really clear, to me anyway, very, very clear.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so we can find an harbor and to traverse the crisis together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you told us in the very beginning. You were in a balcony and Kelly noticed. You know I might be someone that goes not my monkey, not my circus, because I'm overwhelmed myself. But as we do our own spiritual formation work and we really hone in on God's strategic purpose for our lives, then we can learn to navigate in a state of not overwhelm anymore but an overflow. So that's very, very important. I'm in the midst of learning that myself, and you do encourage us to locate the painting. So I promise to end with this us to locate the painting. So I promise to end with this.
Speaker 1:You, on page nine, responding to family storms. You say this chapter began by describing Rembrandt's painting, the Storm on the Sea of Galilee. Don't you worry, heartlifter, I will leave a link to the one I think is the most beautiful, and then you can find your own. If you don't like it, consider locating this painting online. Then zoom in on your screen, look closely and ponder how you have responded when faced with ministry storms. What character do you most resonate with? I love this so much. You just read the rest of the instruction on page nine in the book and look at the picture on page nine in the book and look at the picture. Soak in the picture. Isn't this called Inspirio Divina?
Speaker 2:I think that's what it's called. You've got the term.
Speaker 1:When you look at a beautiful painting or something beautiful, a piece of art, and you immerse yourself in that, just like if we were doing Lectio Divina and we immerse ourself in scripture. You immerse yourself in this Inspirio Divina and take some time, take a month, a week, I don't know and just look and see who you might currently be in that photo. Are you the one retching over the side Right that photo? Are you the one retching over the side right, um, and see if? Well, I know he will, because it says god always speaks to a heart that's seeking after him.
Speaker 1:So we know that is that a good place to start too I think so.
Speaker 2:I think that's a good place Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, Jennifer, Jen, Dr Ripley, all the men hats that you wear. Thank you so much for your time today, because we are in a crisis, so thank you again. Thank you again and again and again.
Speaker 2:Thank you, janelle, this has been great.
