320. True Mothering Extends Beyond Biology

Through personal stories and theological insights, New Testament Scholar and author Sandra Glahn challenges traditional views of motherhood and explores how maternal presence can be expressed beyond biological childbearing. Her journey through multiple pregnancy losses led to profound questions about women's purpose that ultimately expanded her understanding of female calling in both family and faith communities. In this three-part series, Sandra and I talk about:

• Sandra's story of growing up expecting motherhood to be her highest calling.
• The identity crisis caused by experiencing eight failed pregnancies.
• How the cultural ideal of stay-at-home mothering shaped women's understanding of purpose.
• The theological journey that led Sandra to seminary against conventional expectations.
• Jesus' words about Mary "choosing what is better" as validation for women's theological pursuits.
• Examination of 1 Timothy 2:15 about women being "saved through childbearing."
• The connection between the Artemis cult in Ephesus and Paul's teaching about women.
• Recognition that both men and women are given spiritual gifts to benefit the entire body of Christ.
• Expanding our understanding of "mothering" beyond biological definitions.

Join us to explore how reframing maternal influence can unleash women's power in homes, churches, and the world.

Order Sandra's new book: Nobody's Mother

Visit Sandra's website: Dr. Sandra Glahn

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Mothering for the Ages
• 3:55 Sandra Glahn's Personal Journey
• 9:55 Confronting Limited Views of Womanhood
• 16:05 Called Beyond Traditional Roles
• 22:20 Nobody's Mother: Artemis and Scripture
• 28:10 Broadening Our Understanding of Mothering

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

As I've listened to the stories of thousands of women of all ages in all kinds of stages through the years, I've kept their stories locked in the vault of my heart. I feel as if they've been walking around with me all through these years. They've bothered me, they've prodded me and sometimes kept me up at night. Ultimately, they've increased my passion to reframe and reimagine the powerful positions of mother and matriarch within the family system. I'm a problem solver, so I set out to find a way to perhaps change the trajectory of this silent and sad scenario about a dynamic yet untapped source of potential and purpose sitting in our homes and churches. It is time to come to the table, heartlifters, and unleash the power of maternal presence into the world. Welcome to Mothering for the Ages, our 2025 theme, here on today's Heartlift. I'm Janelle. I am your guide here on this heartlifting journey. I invite you to grab a pen, a journal and a cup of something really delicious. May today's conversation give you clarity, courage and a revived sense of camaraderie. You see, you're not on this journey alone. We are unified as heartlifters and committed to bringing change into the world, one heart at a time. Hello and welcome to today's Heart Lift with Janelle. I'm Janelle, your host for today's stimulating conversation. It is May, so that means Mental Health Awareness Month and here in North America we celebrate Mother's Day. So in honor of our Mothering for the Ages tribute, this year we're combining mothering and mental health, and that brings us to today's guest, who is going to elevate our intellectual faith, which is another beautiful tenet of our community. We want to be wise and know how to exegete the scriptures, so today we have Sandra Glahn. She is a one-of-a-kind scholar with expertise in New Testament studies as well as in media and worship. Her new book, nobody's Mother, digs deep into the evidence we have about the ancient Greek goddess Artemis of the Ephesians, from both biblical and classical sources, in order to bring into focus the beloved Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Timothy. Sandra's story is remarkable and inside of her story there is so much strength and I wanted to give you a little background before our conversation begins so you can really grasp the passion and the motives and purpose of Sandra. And I will apologize ahead of time. I forgot to ask you, sandra, if it's Sondra or Sandra, and so please forgive me if I'm saying your name wrong. I usually make that very clear, but somehow in this interview, I was so excited to talk about Artemis that I forgot to ask how to pronounce your name. So I'm saying Sandra. It might be Sandra, but we're going with Sandra, okay. So from the introduction in Sandra's book Nobody's Mother, she writes introduction in Sandra's book Nobody's Mother, she writes After my aging parents sold their home and redistributed their belongings, I ended up with a hand-colored, monochromatic picture of one of my ancestors.

Speaker 1: 4:18

I had seen the photo, but until I hung it on my wall I had never known her name. At that time I asked some family members about her. One told me Julia was on my mother's side, probably through her mother. She came from Spain, having fled from there due to religious persecution. What persecution, I asked. When? How had she suffered? How did she end up in the Pacific Northwest? My mother and her mother and her mother before her were all courageous women. Was Julia the catalyst? Wow, as much as I wanted to learn about my ancestor, the questions evoked a familiar sense of loss, the same one that had whispered grief to me for more than three decades.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Although I'm the fourth of five kids and grew up expecting to have a large family of my own, I have a body that has treated at least eight embryos as a disease. Eight embryos as a disease. I have never given birth. Let's take a pause there. That might be you, heartlifter, and Sandra's story has so much strength in it. I pray that you feel that.

Speaker 1: 5:45

She says I grew up in Oregon's Williamette Valley with two parents who loved me. While all families have their dysfunctions, I had what many would consider the ideal situation a mom at home and a dad at the office. She had I'm paraphrasing now a homemaking mother who embraced what she saw as her calling. She taught 4-H entomology. All the kids called her the bug lady. She did YMCA mom toddler, swim lessons with them and gave them chocolate bars for protein. She helped them all turn crayon shavings into stained glass windows where she learned. Jesus loves me sitting by her in church, her mom as she sang soprano with gusto. She said she watched as her mom taught herself watercolor painting. After looking at a mere sample she could design and make a dress, sometimes even improve it. She was the kind of mom who made me the envy of fellow campfire girl campers because while they were lucky to get mail, I got a whole care package. So she said I thought I would have many, many, many children, she writes, because my mother was the only child of an only child. We even had my grandmother and her mother all to ourselves.

Speaker 1: 7:00

Mom would bristle when people described her as a housewife. I'm not married to the house, she would insist. I'm a home maker. Sandra writes. I'll get to all of the academic stuff later. She continues. This is relevant in my story. The whole parenting gig looked great to me, seeing in my mother's vocation all I could ever want. So by the time I married I had embraced the roles of wife and mother as a woman's highest and best calling. Wow, let's just take another pause. There's so much inside of Sandra's story. Some of my perspective came out of appreciation for the home my parents had built, but some came from the broader culture which at that time had made Fascinating Womanhood a bestseller. Go ahead and look that up. The book laid out a vision for young women to marry and become like Amelia Thackeray's domestic goddess.

Speaker 1: 8:14

After we moved to Arlington, virginia, when I was 10, I heard about Ideal Womanhood at church. Think of Isabella from Disney's Encanto as a mom and you get a sense of the impossible ideal. I've got to watch that my dad, who worked for the government, had applied for a transfer to Washington because he wanted to expose his kids to culture At least that's how it was presented to me. She continues free Juilliard, string quartets and Smithsonian museums and National Geographic lectures lured my parents on an adventure they thought would only last a few years, and down the street, in a semi-urban neighborhood, was a Bible church with a great youth program. Our family attended a mainline denomination, but my parents let me attend worship wherever I wanted. So I joined that youth group. As I learned the Bible, I also absorbed all they taught and modeled about the nuclear family and how the father at the office and the mother at home was God's ideal distribution of labor.

Speaker 1: 9:21

Okay, this is really setting a stage here because, remember, sandra has never birthed her own children Yet, as we are understanding this year. Oh, she is a mother and she is mothering many, as you will hear today. She's mothering us today. I love her journey, I appreciate and respect her journey, a vulnerability to share her deepest pain with us. She continues that, after her sophomore and his junior year of college, she married Gary, her high school sweetheart.

Speaker 1: 10:05

She envisioned herself as a pastor's wife, with service to her husband and children and the congregation as her vocation, Just when she considered dropping out of college, gary and his dad urged her to finish. She writes reluctantly I stayed in school and you're going to see all of these beautiful little breadcrumbs leading her to a new vision of her vocation. I think you will be able to relate on so many levels and as you listen to me today, heartlifter, keep your journey in the forefront of your mind. Perhaps the vision that you had for your life doesn't look anything like the vision that your life has become, but I hope that we can see that sometimes God's plan is better than our dreams, she said.

Speaker 1: 11:03

After Gary graduated, she again considered dropping out to put him through seminary, but he convinced her this is what I love in her story. To finish, while he taught high school science, math and biology. After she graduated, they moved to Texas and she took a job to support him. He always had broader views about what I could do than I had for myself. Wow. I felt the need to assure friends and family that I had no aspirations to make a vocation of my work in human resources. This is so typical of that time.

Speaker 1: 11:40

I relate to Sandra, because staying home was the gospel. I remember the very, very few women who did work outside the home when I had children. It just wasn't something that was admired. Might be hard to understand today, but that is the church atmosphere in which both Sandra and I seem to have been raised in. I was employed with a financial services corporation only to put hubby through. Some expressed concern that my being the primary breadwinner would undermine Gary's manhood. I wondered about that too, but listen to her husband's response. Gary insisted his manhood was not that fragile and I noticed in the scriptures that Jesus and the twelve were supported by women's income, were supported by women's income Luke 8, verse 3.

Speaker 1: 12:40

She continues to share her story and she writes the hardest part was wondering what God had created me to do After her eight failed pregnancies. She wrote wasn't motherhood the ideal? She wrote. Wasn't motherhood the ideal If I could not procreate, what was my purpose? She writes. I came to believe, thanks to Aristotle, by way of Aquinas, that a female is God, indirectly through her husband, that her body was made for birthing while a man's was made for thinking. Following that logic, my ideal of a woman said I would most fully image God by bearing and rearing children. But I now had no category for myself. Wasn't being a mother what God made wives for. In my own system, I failed to do the very thing for which I was created, or so she thought. The key here in Sandra's story is the belief system that we have rolling around in our neural pathways, having been reared in a time where home making you know, being that domestic goddess was what women thought they were to do. Now we know historically that there are many examples like Sandra, but she Sandra had a mentor, elizabeth, who gave her opportunities to teach the Bible.

Speaker 1: 14:35

In doing so she thrived. Beyond teaching women's Bible studies, she mentored wives of seminary students. She enjoyed studying the scriptures, teaching and shepherding people, but in a way, thriving as a teacher really made matters worse, and this is why the Bible teacher she knew said women who wanted to teach had one and only one outlet, and I've heard this A woman will find her greatest satisfaction and meaning in marriage, not seeking the male role, ie Bible teaching, but in fulfilling God's design for her. She had read the commentators. Some said women were saved through childbearing. 1 Timothy 2.15, meant women were to channel their spiritual gift of teaching to raising of children.

Speaker 1: 15:26

Up to that point I had assumed the scholars were right. But here I was going through infertility and I was processing my understanding of the passage, considering all the single and infertile women with teaching gifts who were unable to fulfill such a mothering mandate, oh goodness. Additionally, as a young Christian, I had heard a good sermon series on spiritual gifts. The speaker emphasized that such gifts were intended to benefit the entire circle, entire body of Christ, not limited to one's relatives or friend groups. Some people had told me I possessed teaching gifts. I did love teaching the Bible, but if teaching my own children was supposed to be the one and only outlet for my teaching, well, where did that leave me? So, once again, her husband Gary and mentor Elizabeth encourage her to go back to school and get her master's in theology. But she's like why do women need to learn the original biblical language if not to use in the pulpit?

Speaker 1: 16:32

I reasoned that seminary was for a man, training to be a senior pastor, a vocation women were not designed to do. Nor did I have any desire. So what was I made for? Here is that question again. What was I made for the spiritual wound from my apparent deficiency struck at the core of my womanhood? Wasn't a woman designed to mentor and teach the next generation through mothering. How could I live as an incomplete person? She had to know what is a female human and what is God's vision for her. No less than a foundational biblical anthropology of woman was at stake. What was true and what had the church picked up from the subculture and passed on to me? I needed to know how first century authors would have answered this question and to see what they would have said about the idea of a woman created only for home and hearth. Secondary to the question about the primacy of marriage and stay-at-home motherhood was the appropriate outworking of the gift of teaching for a woman.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Sandra continued to press forward. She just said I needed to know, I needed to have answers. As I prayed about what to do, I did apply to seminary and was accepted, yet I still worried. Was I pushing my way into a vocational world? God intended only for men? Heartlifter, what grabs me as I read that is that word, that verb pushing. Was I pushing my way into a vocational world? God intended only for men? Well, what do we do in the transitional phase and right after the transitional phase of childbirth? What do we do? We push, yeah, huh, I hadn't thought about this when I was interviewing Sandra, but I just might have to have her back. Was she pushing her way into a vocational world God intended only for men? Oh, I just got chills because I feel like was she actually pushing her and therefore mothering her way into a wider sphere of influence for women that were following her? When she talked about earlier with her ancestor Julia, was Julia the catalyst? I can't help but think here that Sandra is a catalyst and she's really imaging that through her journey On the way out of the door after her first class in seminary, she dropped to her knees in front of her couch and begged God to stop her if she was wrong.

Speaker 1: 20:05

It really chokes me up. To my surprise, these words from Jesus came to mind Mary has chosen what is better. Mary has chosen what is better. Luke 10, 42. I thought of the story in which Jesus' quote appears in a narrative I had barely thought about for months. Its context fit perfectly. Martha thought her sister was wrongly neglecting domesticity to learn theology, but Jesus had a different view of Mary's priorities. I stood with confidence that day. I walked out my front door and into the classroom. I had no idea where my seminary education would take me. I knew only that the first female seminarian was not feminist Betty Friedan's idea but Jesus Christ, feminist Betty Friedan's idea but Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1: 21:08

She then goes on in her studies and is led to get her PhD, which I find just fascinating. And she studies in her PhD a focus on first century, especially as they relate to women. There is such a fierce fierceness in Sandra's progressive journey to fulfill her calling as a human being who happens to be a woman. She concludes the introduction to her book Nobody's Mother. Nobody's Mother is the book I wish I had to help me address key questions about motherhood and teaching, based on what it means to be saved through childbearing in 1 Timothy 2. But why the subtitle, you might ask?

Speaker 1: 22:05

Artemis of the Ephesians in Antiquity and the New Testament what on earth does Artemis have to do with it In the quest to open doors for women in public ministry? Some scholars in the past had said Paul's reference to childbirth was due to the influence of Artemis, an Ephesian goddess whom they associated with motherhood and fertility. But this view of Artemis as mother and fertility goddess had flaws. So many scholars eliminated the Artemis explanation as an option. Yet in doing so they lost other important background considerations relating to Artemis, unrelated to her fertility or mothering, considerations that do help us better understand Timothy's world and Paul's concerns. Understand Timothy's world and Paul's concerns.

Speaker 1: 23:01

This book, nobody's Mother, is for you, the reader who wants to avoid sacrificing a high view of scripture while working to reconcile conflicting narratives about God's view of women. It's for the reader who sees Paul describe Priscilla as a fellow worker in Romans 16, 3. Notes that he says a wife has authority over her husband's body in 1 Corinthians 7, 4, and suspects the apostle has been misunderstood. It's for the person who looks at the history of the church and knows huge parts of the narrative, namely the one about men and women partnering to do ministry, have gone missing. Or maybe they've seen that the Roman Catholic Church prohibits women from serving the Eucharist while having no major issue with women preaching. Wow, so much in this, especially right now in history, when tomorrow starts the conclave where a new pope will be named. Meanwhile, protestant rationale tends to be vice versa, with women more likely to serve communion than to preach. Why the difference? This book is for the person who sees God giving spiritual gifts to women for the maturing of the body of Christ and has a hunch they're supposed to use them far beyond the nuclear family, important as that is.

Speaker 1: 24:38

Even though I did not want to make women my go-to topic, I have heard from many who have found this research life-giving, so I'm passionate about the subject, helping people, men and women alike, find answers to the same questions I had. Since the hashtag Me Too and hashtag Church Too movements, I've encountered even more people asking about women in public ministry, at the root of which is having a clear understanding of saved through childbearing. Many confess that they have guarded the church doors against any form of feminism, while leaving the back door wide open to misogyny. I realize that I take a risk sharing my journey. At the beginning, you might say your experience has led you to see the text in a certain way, to which I would answer, of course, as has yours.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Everyone looks at the text through the grid of personal experience. Nevertheless, it's true that we must always view our experience through the grid of the biblical text, not the other way around, kathy Keller notes. Unfortunately, I have often found there is little theological reflection to follow the stories of personal journey. Fair point. What follows my story, then, is chapters of theological reflection. My hope in sharing my own narrative is that it will put a human face on the questions we will explore in the pages to follow expanding contemplation of the text to reach the realm of application that affects real people.

Speaker 1: 26:16

Oh, heartlifter, I love this conversation, I love this book and I love the theological study, research, contemplation that our guest Sandra has done in order to help us frame our understanding of where we, as women, can advance the kingdom of God. Amen. I am here to broaden our understanding, to challenge our belief systems that perhaps have been curated and shaped in limiting narratives, in limiting church systems. I'm not a feminist by any means. I love order. I love being married to a man like Gary, who respects my opinion and we work jointly in our marriage and in our family. Maybe you don't have that, so today we pray that, as women who are trying to be heartlifters in our spheres of influence, that we will grow intellectually and we will learn from wise, wise women in the faith, like Sandra. Her story is so remarkable, as difficult as it was for her, so I wanted to give you this background. I appreciate Sandra giving me the license to read from Nobody's Mother, and I hope that it will lead you to get her book and study deeply so that you can have a profound intellectual and spiritual influence on those in your care.

Speaker 1: 28:08

Stay tuned for the conversation. This is going to be a three-parter Wednesday, thursday and Friday. It's so important and so deep. As we come to celebrate mothering this Sunday, let us have a broader view of what that word mothering means, what that word mothering means and, as we will study in the future, what matriarchy means, because I want to be a modern day matriarch who has, like Sandra's ancestor, julia, an influence, who is a catalyst. I want to be a catalyst. I love that and keep pushing through any limitations that have been put on us. Okay, that's enough. May this story inspire your story, may you trace your ancestry and, as you will find, there probably were many women serving as catalysts to get you to where you are today.

Speaker 1: 29:19

Stay tuned. Thanks for listening today, heartlifter. Be sure to hop over to Substack at Heartlift Central, instagram at Janelle Rairdon and, if you would be so kind, make a tax-deductible donation to keep this podcast ad-free and spreading its influence all over the world. You can make that donation on my website, janelleraritancom. Heart Lift International. Everything you need to know is right there. Remember, heart Lifter, you have value, worth and dignity. Thank you.