Today's Heartlift with Janell
Sometimes the story we tell ourselves is not really true. Sometimes the story others tell about us is not really true. On "Today's Heartlift with Janell," Author, Trauma-informed, board-certified marriage and family specialist, and Professional Heartlifter, Janell Rardon, opens conversations about how emotional health and mental fitness effects absolutely every area of our lives. When we possess and practice healthy, strong, resilient emotional health practices, life is so much better. Read Janell's newest book, "Stronger Every Day: 9 Tools for an Emotionally Healthy You."
Today's Heartlift with Janell
326. Tomorrow Needs You with Naeem Fazal
Today's conversation with Naeem Fazal, author of "Tomorrow Needs You: Seeing Beauty When You Feel Hopeless," explores finding beauty and hope amid trauma and darkness, offering a powerful message of transformation for anyone feeling hopeless.
• Naeem shares his extraordinary testimony of encountering Jesus supernaturally after growing up Muslim in Kuwait.
• The concept that "yesterday has forgotten you" challenges us to reconcile rather than rehearse our past trauma.
• We can either live conserving the past or creating the future – only the future contains hope.
• Beauty serves as the solution to fear when we make something bigger in front of us than the fear inside us (Psalm 16:8).
• Perfect love casts out fear, showing that faith alone isn't the answer to overcoming our deepest anxieties (1 John 4).
• Creating beauty requires loving what you're creating, whether it's families, art, or relationships.
• God loves seeing us grow through all stages of development, even the messy and awkward parts.
• Expressing joy represents one of our most vulnerable acts, but is essential for healing.
• Like Jesus, who endured the cross for the joy set before him, we must put joy before us to endure our challenges.
Order Naeem Fazal's books: Tomorrow Needs You and Ex-Muslim
Visit Naeem's website: Naeem Fazal
Listen to Naeem's TED Talk: The Power of Beauty
Listen to Naeem's Message: Your Part in the Biggest Story
Begin Your Heartlifter's Journey:
- Visit and subscribe to Heartlift Central on Substack. This is our new online coaching center and meeting place for Heartlifters worldwide.
- Download the "Overcoming Hurtful Words" Study Guide PDF: BECOMING EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY
- Meet me on Instagram: @janellrardon
- Leave a review and rate the podcast: WRITE A REVIEW
- Learn more about my books and work: Janell Rardon
- Make a tax-deductible donation through Heartlift International
As I've listened to the stories of thousands of women of all ages in all kinds of stages through the years, I've kept their stories locked in the vault of my heart. I feel as if they've been walking around with me all through these years. They've bothered me, they've prodded me and sometimes kept me up at night. Ultimately, they've increased my passion to reframe and reimagine the powerful positions of mother and matriarch within the family system. I'm a problem solver, so I set out to find a way to perhaps change the trajectory of this silent and sad scenario about a dynamic yet untapped source of potential and purpose sitting in our homes and churches. It is time to come to the table, heartlifters, and unleash the power of maternal presence into the world. Welcome to Mothering for the Ages, our 2025 theme, here on today's Heartlift.
Speaker 1:I'm Janelle. I am your guide here on this heartlifting journey. I invite you to grab a pen, a journal and a cup of something really delicious. May today's conversation give you clarity, courage and a revived sense of camaraderie. You see, you're not on this journey alone. We are unified as heartlifters and committed to bringing change into the world, one heart at a time. Oh, heartlifters, okay, I need you to find a quiet space, because I think that my conversation today with Naeem Faisal right.
Speaker 2:I do it right. Yes, you did.
Speaker 1:Starting off with a win Is really going to arrest your attention, take your breath away and speak really providential, prophetic words into your life. I really feel that way. I felt that way when I first saw his book Tomorrow Needs you. I mean, who wouldn't pick up a book whose title says Tomorrow Needs you? Who wouldn't pick up that book? I see it in airports Like it's crazy, okay, seeing beauty when you feel hopeless. And I told you that you know, working in trauma therapy, like I do as a marriage and family systems trauma-informed coach, at the end of my 13 years, I just saw how vital it was that my clients get beauty in front of them, all around them, and activate all of their senses. Here we are and I am so excited you have. You're like a diamond to me. There are so many facets of your story, naeem, and I want to talk about all of them, but we can't. But I wonder if you could just give us a condensed version of the miracle content, condensed God's miraculous movement in your life.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. First of all, thank you for having me. Second of all, I don't think I've ever been called a diamond.
Speaker 1:You are a diamond, I'll take it. A prism, a diamond.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think everybody needs to be a diamond instead of the old illustration of we're all onions that we peel back.
Speaker 1:I think we're actually diamonds. Yeah, I don't like onions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no one likes onions, no, but.
Speaker 1:I love a good diamond, Like I like mine. You put it in the light and it's just like.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, Jewish rabbis had this idea of the I think it's called in the 70 faces of the Torah. So they likened the Torah as like to a diamond. They said that if you take a gem, for example, and you put it towards the light, and every time you move it you see a part of the gem you've never seen before. That's right, and so it's really. There's a phrase called turning the gem. What? Yeah? And so when you turn the scriptures, you see something about God that you'll never see before.
Speaker 2:What's beautiful about that is that when you consider people and souls as these gems which we are, you know we're wonderfully, beautifully created by God and we are complex beings, and so when we have the light of God shine on us in different seasons of our life, you see a particular kind of beauty, a particular kind of personality, something you've never seen before. And so I think it's so tough, you know, because obviously, physically, you know, with lighting, you know people look so different depending on the lighting, Right, so your soul looks very different, depending on the light as well.
Speaker 1:So anyways, so we're shining the light on a few of your facets today. Yes, and there are the other books that you have that people, my readers, my heartlifters, can go get to learn about other facets.
Speaker 2:But you do have a miraculous story of coming to the faith.
Speaker 1:So I cannot be remiss in not asking you.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, so you want me to jump into that?
Speaker 1:Jump right in.
Speaker 2:Okay, I. So you want me to jump into that? Jump right in. Okay, I'll do it, I'll do it. So yeah, my story really started it starts when I came to faith in Jesus.
Speaker 2:But I have to give the backstory a little bit. So I grew up as a Pakistani kid. I have two brothers, two sisters, and we grew up not in Pakistan, you know, but actually in Kuwait. And we grew up not in Pakistan, you know, but actually in Kuwait. We grew up in Kuwait, in the Middle East. But since we are, you know, Muslims, the culture was Muslim as well. So it was very similar to us and it was familiar to us. But yeah, I grew up there and I came to the States in 1992 after the Gulf War. Now, in my first book, called Ex-Muslim, I talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have to get that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's not about being anti-Muslim, it's just that I was a Muslim and now I've met Jesus and so, yeah, so I came here in 1992 after the first Gulf War, if you remember that? Oh, clearly clearly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my brother was in the. So we were all in the States. My brother was older than me. He got accepted to a college in the States, came here, came back and told me and my siblings that he was a Christian. Oh yeah, that was crazy and I threatened to kill him. So that was the first time I heard about Jesus. So now he goes back to college and Iraq invades Kuwait. This is 1990.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And we survived the war. We were there throughout the liberation, you know.
Speaker 2:And came here after that in 1992. And my brother invited me to FCA Fellowship for Christian Athletes, and so I was like I'm not really interested in all that. And I knew that he was like this Jesus guy and I'm like I just don't want to be a part of this man because I wasn't really looking for God, I wasn't looking for religion, I wasn't looking for religion, I wasn't looking for anything. And in fact, you know, this might explain why I wrote this book and why the cover of this book looks like this is because when I came to the States, I wanted to be an art major. So I was thinking I was gonna be an artist, I was gonna do this, yeah, so I end up in FCA.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is starting to make sense to me. Yeah, I end up in FCA. Okay, this is starting to make sense to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I end up in FCA and that's where I hear about the gospel, this idea of a God who's very personal, a God who's very relational, and you know, islam is just not like that. So I was like I don't even believe any of this. And then my brother was convinced that if I would just ask Jesus to reveal himself, he'll do it. I thought this was just nuts. He was crazy. So we spent, like you know, weeks debating on it and I was being fun of him and it was. It was not good, but I was like so intrigued by the idea that this could be possible.
Speaker 2:Anyways, so once Tuesday it was a Tuesday night right after the meeting, they were ending in prayer, and and I looked up and I just said you know, this is even true, half true. I want to know. And so I, yeah, I went, I didn't, that's it, that's all I did, and that's nothing happened, and I thought nothing of it. And then, a couple of days later, I was in my bed trying to fall asleep and all of a sudden I feel like my body is reacting to something that I can't really see, like it's not just, it wasn't just fear, it was like death had walked into the room. I'm not quite sure, couldn't explain it to you. And then I'm just trying to look around and see what's going on and something grabs me.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I mean seriously. This is where the story gets crazy. Something grabs me from my and my shoulders, drags me and pins me into my pillow, and so I just react to get out of it and something sits on me and I'm now. I cannot move no-transcript. So now I'm like I'm distraught, I don't know what to do, sure.
Speaker 1:Panicked, freaking out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, freaking out, I'm looking at the room.
Speaker 1:It looks evil, I'm like what is happening?
Speaker 2:And I'm just thinking am I in a dream?
Speaker 1:I just didn't wake up, you know.
Speaker 2:Sure, and I didn't even fall asleep. I mean nothing, you know. And so the door opens up and I kid you not, you know, I kid you not this thing walks in and this is where the story gets really crazy and unbelievable. Right, and you know, I like in Islam, we just don't talk about demons and angels a whole lot but, this thing was clearly like this walking gargoyle demon thing.
Speaker 2:I didn't know, I didn't know what I was looking at, even, and so it came closer and it starts communicating and, basically, is saying something to the effect that I'm he's gonna kill me and I'm gonna die tonight and I'm just freaking out like now. I'm like uh full-fledged panic yeah, yeah, I'm like did I? Who did I, who did I take off upstairs? Like you know, was it allah, because I went to to FCA.
Speaker 1:Oh, you definitely stirred the pot for sure, yeah, was it Jesus?
Speaker 2:because I was like arguing and making fun of him and I didn't believe any of this. I was like who you know? And so these things get closer. I kid you not, I'm praying to any God out there. I'm like Allah, buddha, oprah. You know what I'm saying, anybody.
Speaker 1:Whoever out? There, I'm like allah, buddha oprah, you know I'm saying anybody, whoever, whoever, please who are you?
Speaker 2:yes, anybody. That's hysterical, I'm sorry. So this thing yeah, this thing gets closer, oh, and all of a sudden is um disappears and I'm like stunned in my bed going what just happened? So I run out of the room, wake up my brother and I tell him what happened and he goes oh, oh, oh, this stuff is all real. And I'm like what do you mean? This stuff is all real Because I was hoping he would just say you just had a bad dream. This is not real stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, he said let God reveal himself to you, right? So here I know. Yeah, I mean hello, yeah.
Speaker 2:So then he says this to me which I'd never heard before, obviously, and he said oh, this kind of stuff is in the Bible. And I'm like, what, what are you talking about? Like I mean, and now, looking back, I don't realize. I don't think people realize how many supernatural things are in the Bible, especially in the life of Jesus. So he starts telling me about them and then I'm like blown, my mind is blown. I'm like I just don't know what you're saying here.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that's so awful.
Speaker 2:And then so he tells me about the gospel, talks to me about what it means, what is salvations about, repenting of sins, and what God might be doing and this, and that it tells me a lot of things. And then finally I just stop him and I go. You know what? Listen, I just think there's something out to kill me, so I need some real help. Help. And then he says this. He says well, there's only one person I know who has authority over demons and angels, and I'm like who? And he was like Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was like all right.
Speaker 2:I was like all right, let's do this. And he's like all right, you want to pray? I'm like yes. So he said okay, why don't you repeat after me? And I was about to, but before I did that, I wanted to have a really honest, real prayer, and so I remember saying this. I said this is my first interaction with Jesus. I said, jesus, I don't know who you are, so I can't say you're the Lord of my life. I don't know anything about you, so I can't say I love you. I can't make any promises, but if you will save me from this, I'll give you my whole life.
Speaker 1:Been there.
Speaker 2:So I did that. He prayed for me. You know, I repeat after him amen, amen. I open my eyes. He is like ecstatic. You know, he's smiling.
Speaker 1:He's so happy.
Speaker 2:He was so happy, he was like. He was like oh my gosh, I can't believe you did this.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I can't believe it and I was scared to it yeah, and I well for me.
Speaker 2:I was like, um well, that's great, but I'm still scared to death like I'm saying going in that room yes. So then he was like I kid you not. He was like all right, man, I'll see you in the morning. And I'm like no, I'm spooning you for a month, you know. I'm saying like that's what's happening, I'm not doing this. Like he goes no, no, you got to go back in the room. And I'm like no, no, I'm sleeping here I'm sleeping right here.
Speaker 2:Buddy, teddy bear, it's happening yes, crosses in my hand right, right, and he gives me uh, so he goes, I got you, I got you. And he says let me give you a Bible. And he gives me a Bible that's smaller than my eye. Oh gosh, you know, isn't the Gideon Bibles? Yes, you know the green ones. I do so. Imagine this. Imagine this. I have never held a Bible. I'm a Muslim kid. I'm like this is the bible. My face hurts and I was like do you have something bigger? I'm like because if I'm gonna go back in the room, I need something bigger.
Speaker 2:I need a big family bible right, yes, yeah, but he was like no, no, you're fine, just go back in the room, you'll be fine, I need to go back to sleep right, and so, finally, I go back in the room, I turn on all the lights and I'm here and I gotta tell you I was freaked out. I was like you know when you're spooked, not that you can't, you can't get it everything makes a sound yes, oh yes all the time become, it gets becomes alive right away.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm like I. I don't know what's going on, so an hour I know. Now, an hour into it, I'm like I get so mad. I don't know why I just get so mad. I'm like you know what I just I was. I just came here, uh, it's been like three weeks since I've been in the us. Wow, I'm I. I, you know, I didn't, um, like I, I don't, I'm trying to get into college. I didn't graduate from high school. Oh, I've got. I've got. I've been held at gunpoint.
Speaker 1:I've gone through you know, all like all these not really the best time time in America to show up. I don't think either. Right your TED talk talks about that, so I'll just link everyone to that because it's very informative and very present day, very, very good so.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, yeah, so then. So I just get frustrated, I go, shut off the lights. I look up again, get to my bed, look up again. I say you know what, jesus, if I died tonight it is your fault, like I don't even know what to say. I honestly don't know what to say. I mean, again, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:This is fantastic. It's so right though. It's so honest, Like.
Speaker 2:I don't know you.
Speaker 1:Why would I yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the next thing I so I put the, and this is where it gets crazy. Next thing I know is I find myself sitting on my bed looking at this presence and he says I'm Jesus and your life is not your own. Now I've never felt peace so aggressive.
Speaker 1:Okay, yep, there you go piece so aggressive.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, there you go, and uh, I just I remember it's so crazy because I can't even explain what I look was looking at I. I was looking at him, but I was inside of him. It's the craziest thing. It felt like like my body could not just handle being um in this dimension, like he was, like like I don't know I can't even.
Speaker 1:It's liminal space. It's yeah, it's unexplainable Mysterious. Yep, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um wow, His presence was so intoxicating. I again, I remember him saying your life is not your own and uh, yeah, I fell asleep and the next uh, the morning. I woke up the next morning and I felt like I had gotten a download. I knew I was supposed to be in ministry. I knew I was supposed to change. I was not supposed to go to be an artist, I just knew I was—I didn't even know what ministry meant.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, that started a journey. A three-year—I mean I was in college and for three years I just focused on just understanding and developing my relationship with him understanding Christianity, understanding the Bible. I didn't date for three years.
Speaker 1:I love the three-year thing. That's very biblical, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't even know. Yeah, I didn't know. Fascinating, yeah, and so, yeah, so that fast forward now. Wow, that's the story, and then I'll just say this, then we can jump into Tomorrow. Needs you my book? But I have two brothers and two sisters and all have come to faith in Jesus since then. Because every yeah, an ex-Muslim. That book chronicles my story and the story of my family all coming to faith.
Speaker 1:It's amazing In supernatural ways.
Speaker 2:So that's that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't surprise me that he reached out to you in that way, because I think, I mean, there's such a real war going on in between the kingdom of God and the kingdom here, and so it's amazing and tomorrow needed you. So here we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems like it. It tomorrow needed you. So here we are. Yeah, seems like it. It seems like it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Your book is in three parts, which I really love. Part one is yesterday has forgotten you. Okay, we're going to talk about that. Part two is today, is waiting. Part three is tomorrow needs you? So in the world that I live in, with counseling, psychology, therapy, coaching, the mental health field, right, emotional healing, all of that jazz, yesterday has forgotten you is not a common theme. We spend a lot of time looking at the past.
Speaker 1:You know, and here's your media kit that I love and adore. That says forgetting the past, and I just wrote on there this, like if we are, let me read this God is calling you and me, regardless of what happened to us. He's calling us to the future. He knows that our dreams and aspirations and all the beautiful things exist in the future. This evokes such deep emotion in me. If we are consumed with the things of yesterday, we cannot tap into the possibility of tomorrow.
Speaker 1:I mean that's a good preaching there, like right, good writing, but that idea of forgetting the past, you know, just let it go, just let it go, sister, just let it go, brother just let it go get in the prayer line, let it go. Okay, and that yesterday has forgotten you, it's just. It's a bit mind blowing to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So to me, you know, I don't like telling people like, hey, you know, don't worry about the past, Forget the past. In my book I talk about the idea where we are infatuated with the past, like we're infatuated with a relationship, maybe a romantic relationship, maybe a friendship.
Speaker 2:It's why we get on Facebook and all of a sudden go to the past and just go back and find all the people because we're infatuated with the past, and my idea is, the past is not infatuated with us. So, if it was, a relationship like yesterday has forgotten you, like you, you guys were a thing, but you're no longer a thing. It's like going back to an ex and still trying to rekindle something, and so, if it's good or bad, you can't rekindle the past. And as long as you live there, you see, we have to reconcile the past. We have to reconcile it, yes, and then move forward, but we can't rehearse it. Oh, there it is. We have to go back and rehearse it and rehearse it. And you know, as you're an expert in this, we're trying to, as we go back and look at people's past trauma. We're not trying to rehearse it just to regurgitate it. No, we're trying to reconcile it.
Speaker 2:So we can close the books on it and say, now that we've done this, we've got to move on and do something else. Because, see, the thing is is that some people, like I talk about in the book, some people we think that moving forward in life is we need to concentrate, we need to conserve the past and if we can't live today our lives conserving everything that happened in the past, let's tell the story of the past. Let's talk about the past, again and again.
Speaker 2:Again, again. No, because if you live, you can either live your life conserving the past or creating the future. That's incredible. In the book I talk about how hope you know we all want hope, but do you know one thing that does not exist in the past?
Speaker 1:Hope, hope, that's what you say.
Speaker 1:Hope doesn't exist in the past, it's really disarming and messing up my hair and my life, and I think I want it to mess up everybody's mind and shake it up in all the right ways. Because you say yesterday has forgotten you. Why don't you reconcile it and close the book? I like the way that you say that, like the way I say it is. We bring the past into the present long enough to make sense of it and make meaning of it. And I would now add reconcile it so that we can move on and live in the present and have this future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have to learn from the past. You can't ignore the past.
Speaker 1:No, you have to make meaning with it.
Speaker 2:That's perfect, you got past. No, you have to make meaning with it. That's perfect, you got to, you got to. And especially in trauma, you've got to. Uh, you've got to. Yes, yeah, you've got to have bring meaning to. Well, okay, okay, not, why did it happen? But, right, like, but there's so many other, so many questions, and that's why this book is really about post-traumatic growth. Uh, yes, it's not about Sorry, I get so excited.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's about the fact that the trauma does break us. It does, but it does not have to shape us.
Speaker 1:No, tell me your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:Why so? For example, like you know, one of the beautiful things about writing this book is that I've been able to tell the stories of so many people Like. So every chapter is a book, is a story of someone who's come out of traumatic experiences Great and so and it's pretty hard-hitting stuff, yeah, but what happens is is that, like I'll tell you let me use my dad, for example and you mentioned the TEDx talk and he's in there as well, and so why did I call it Tomorrow? Needs you? Let me explain why.
Speaker 2:Because my dad for those of you who do not know, my dad tried to commit suicide, failed at committing suicide, and as I was talking to him about it and his depression and he was sharing with me, one of the things he said was no one needs me, no one needs me. And I said look around, dad. He was like no one needs me, I've lost everything. And what he started doing was he was starting to talk about how the business, the opportunities, the life that he lost in the war which, you know, I was a kid, I was a teenager, so I lost some things, but he was an adult and lost successful, very successful right yeah, yeah and then he came here and, because of the language barrier, I mean, all he could work was at a grocery store or, sorry, a convenience store.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like the the yeah, yeah, like the typical idea, like, yes, the picture, you see, he lived it and it was like so heartbreaking for him, like he could not function and so it was traumatic for him to move to this state and it broke him.
Speaker 2:It broke him when he said no one needs me. I was like I said, dad, I need you, I need you, I need you. And so then, that's why I wrote this book called Tomorrow Needs you, because the lie of depression, in a sense the lie of, of um hopelessness. Hopelessness is that no one needs you.
Speaker 1:I've been there, might as well, yeah. Might as well. They well be better off without me right, they'll be better off.
Speaker 2:They'll be better off, and, and so that's why I wrote this book, because I just have too many people in my life who've committed suicide. Now, my dad, uh, passed away a year or six months after he, uh, he tried to commit suicide, but didn didn't succeed. Did not succeed, yeah, but yeah, and so what happens there, though, is is that so? When people focus on the fact that trauma breaks them, they just broken, and that's why I love them. That's why I talked about beauty, because I believe, with Jesus, we are the broken becoming beautiful.
Speaker 1:Oh, Kintsugi, right, the Japanese art form.
Speaker 1:Oh there's just yes, I mean we can. The thing I say here is the longest journey to healing is from the head into the heart. Right, it's this passage from brain to heart to really embodying the truth. Like you could say to me when I was in a depression years ago oh, you know, there's brokenness in your beauty and I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know, when you're that dark, when you have that dark night of the soul, you're walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
Speaker 1:My heart lifters really understand this concept. That's why your work, your book, but the work behind your book, your story, has so much strength in it. This is, you know, it's so important to know that fear you say fear, no longer dictates, no longer dictates. So you also say, on the other hand, when we enter into suffering or enter a dark night of the soul, I love this, love is always questioned. Why is that? Why, how, before we talk about implementing beauty, why I was so intrigued by that. You know, why is love always questioned? It's hitting a little too close to my heart and a lot of hearts, you're not gonna flip the switch.
Speaker 1:Um well, I mean my my off the top of my head would be that I have what we say in the therapy world, an insecure, ambivalent attachment. I did not get secure attachment as a child. I did not. I came in an alcohol home so I was not seen, known that the love of God is pure towards me, it's unconditional, there's no conditions to it.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I just think how can a person be in a state of being where they never question that?
Speaker 2:Is that a?
Speaker 1:weird question.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, it's a real question. It's one that we wrestle with subconsciously, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like in the book, I talk about people who've experienced. The love we've kind of experienced is either deprived or depraved ah, tell me the difference so, so deprived is that you've been, you didn't get enough of it, but you didn't.
Speaker 2:It's always like you were under loved and so now a lot of things you do is because of that, and depraved loved is it was a controlling kind of love. So it was. It was. It was you got all the love but you had to do all the things. So one was this idea of was that I just don't have a time for you, like we. You know it was depraved. It was like you're, you're, you're, I'm sorry, you're deprived, you're like I, I, I needed this and I and sometimes in real life, big families, you find a kid that goes does no one care about me?
Speaker 1:Yes, no one sees me, right? No one hears me. No one hears me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so they struggle their whole life with significance. Yes, you know what's fascinating about significance. You know what the word significance means. Can't pull it out but you tell me. It says this being worthy of attention.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:See, so many people are convinced I'm not worthy of attention, oh gosh. So what that says is so now you've got this depraved kind of thinking, you've got love, that's. You know like it's, and I think depravity and you know having enough, and both of these kinds of loves work together in a bad way. But it's a bad milkshake. You know what I'm saying. It's like one says, hey, you're not good enough. No-transcript. And the word perfect actually in the text is the word complete, perfected, or mature.
Speaker 2:Now, what's what's interesting about the word mature is it's basically like it's ripened. It's like a fruit that's ripened. It won't. There's nothing more to it. So God never has a moment that he looks at us and goes you know what? I think I love you more. Today, humans do that. Yes, god goes. I don't think I can, I can't love you more and I choose to not love you less. So so I think. That's why I think and that's why I've talked about how in one of my chapters, I talk about how, when faith fails, yes, take us there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when people talk about faith and they use faith faith is used for a lot of things In the Christian world. Obviously we use it to fight fear and we've said, hey, you know what, we've got to be fearless, we've got to be faith-filled, fight fear. And we've said, hey, you know what, we've got to be fearless, we've got to be faith-filled. So there's always this implied that the answer to fear is having more faith. Yes, the only problem with that is it's not necessarily true.
Speaker 2:Now, what I mean by that, I know it's a pretty bold statement to say, because in the scriptures, what the scriptures say is that faith is the opposite of fear. It's not the solution, like it doesn't dismantle it. The only thing that does is perfect love casts out fear, first on four yeah, and then he says yeah. He says and if you fear, it's because of fear of punishment, and that's because perfect love has not totally been completed in you, like you haven't totally identified with and believed that, oh, god loves me and I'm found in him, and that sets us free. And so the reason why I connect beauty so much because I talk about in my TEDx talk, I talk about beauty, how beauty is the solution to fear. It's because I believe that there is an undeniable connection with beauty and love, and because people go. Well, what do you mean by beauty, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, Talk to us from your artist soul, yeah.
Speaker 2:So beauty is very interesting, the word beauty, because what is beautiful truly is in the eye of the beholder, and beautiful things does not have to be something that's attractive Like. I think people go this thing, this person, this opportunity, whatever is beautiful, because it's attractive Of course that's not it.
Speaker 1:Well, that is our culture. Come on now.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I'm not talking about being attracted to something. I'm talking about something that's beautiful. Meaning the word beauty means you basically are saying this is the biggest thing Out of all things, this is the one, this is the thing. This is more beautiful than that, which means to me this is a bigger deal than that. And so when you think about that, when you think about, oh, that's what beauty is. So I say, when you make something bigger in front of you, then the fear inside of you, that bigger thing, is called beauty. So when you put God's love that's so much bigger in front of you, you have the power to defeat the fear inside of you. And see, you know this and we know this. I mean, sometimes we struggle so much with, like, I don't think I can muster enough faith, enough courage, enough positivity enough, whatever, you know, I can't play enough.
Speaker 1:Affirmation. What's the word today? Manifesting right. All of those things, yes, all of those things.
Speaker 2:What that means is someone's got to. We got to manufacture this, we got to manufacture it.
Speaker 2:We got to keep on doing yes, it's works, it's me, yeah, and you know I mean. That's why you know the addiction programs. The first thing they say is you've got to acknowledge like you've got a problem, but then you're unable to fix it. So I'm thinking why have we not understood that the biggest fears in us, the biggest anxieties in us, cannot be fixed by something inside of us, but maybe something before us? That's why the psalmist says I've set the Lord before me. He's right on my right hand.
Speaker 2:Yes, I should not be moved. He's saying I'm looking at something so beautiful. That's why God would say go up, look at the skies. You don't believe me, Go look at the skies.
Speaker 1:Just look up.
Speaker 2:David goes. When I consider the heavens and the stars, the moon you've made, stars, you've ordained. What is, man, that you're mindful from? I look at your majesty, and so I'm hoping that this book allows people to say, hey, listen, listen, you can reconcile the past, but today is waiting, and today what you have to do is you've got to put a beautiful vision, a beautiful community, a beautiful relationship. You got to put some kind of beauty in front of you, because what you can't make something or go for something or create beauty without love, you cannot do it, it's impossible.
Speaker 1:Can you just give me a little bit more on that? I know that our time is, but what does that mean? Is that part of the beautiful vision in chapter 10, that I can't create or see anything without love? I am right with you, but I want to hear your take.
Speaker 2:So you've got this love, which is identity that comes from God. But then the other thing is is that, as an artist, like, so I'm you know, I'm uh, if the use of the word I'm your, the, the, the standard uh description of an artist, as in I paint on canvas but then there are people who do artistry in writing, theater, uh, in work, and gardening right.
Speaker 2:Uh, being entrepreneur. They, they're creating beautiful plans, city plans. People create beautiful families, so we create this beauty, beautiful things. But see, the thing is is that once you want to create something that you believe is beautiful, you have to love it. That's why you are committed to it. It comes out as commitment, but you love it. No one else has to like your family, but you do. You're to it. It comes out as commitment, but you love it. No one else has to like your family, but you do. You're creating it. No one else likes your drawing, but you do because you love the process, you love what you're doing. It doesn't matter, because you love what you do.
Speaker 1:I was a dancer, so, yeah, I loved choreography and I would create and I choreograph in my mind, but I could not do it right. You just can't not not do it. You've got to create it, no matter what. Yes exactly.
Speaker 2:So if beauty has to be linked to love because not? Then it's like linked to performance. I do this dance, for example, to get a block.
Speaker 1:Rewarded.
Speaker 2:Make a a yeah, correct, make a team to get something that, even though you do a you, if you do a magnificent uh dance piece, was it really beautiful to you?
Speaker 1:no, you can tell, can't you? You? Can tell on any sing show, idol voice, all these shows, or so you think you can see when someone is, when it's coming from their bones, you know, from their soul. It's so recognizable you know, I see what you're saying. Let me, let me just. I jotted these notes down from your TEDx because, oh my gosh Beauty. We've said this is the solution to fear, but here's what got me?
Speaker 2:You say, fear knows this.
Speaker 1:Now that I know more about your story, I think about like Godzilla, who walked through your door right, who knew what was right around the corner of your life, the corner of your life. They were fighting for you. They were wow, you got to see it. Not all of us see it. I can sense it when there's that kind of warfare going on in that liminal space. Then you say so, if you remove beauty, fear sets in. Beauty involves creating. And then you say do I have beautiful relationships in my life? Because we all need a reason to live. So I think you thank you for bringing even more understanding.
Speaker 1:I've been studying 1 John 4 for the last three and a half years because I had a situation in my life where I just felt like if I made a decision, a child might abandon me, or it was just something I don't really have permission to talk about. But I was woken in the middle of the night, just went out and God said read 1 John 4. And I don't hear him often, but it was like you cannot read that chapter because it says if you love me, then you know me.
Speaker 1:And you know my love and I just went. Well then, I guess I don't know you. I guess I don't. Because I am scared to death of being abandoned, of being abandoned, and it was life-changing. But you now are bringing even more understanding for all of us. That perfect love cast out fear. So my attention, my focus if I'm someone who is trying to move from the past, having control on me, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have to embody, like from head to toe, the love of God for me, you have to.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, you have to, you know. Yeah, thanks for sharing that, you know, because it's so hard to walk out the incredible love that God has for us, because there are days you wake up and you go like I don't even know. The world is tiring, subtiring, everything is just I'm just so tired, I'm so weary, I'm done fighting. I just don't. Why can't things just work out Like, why does it have to be so hard? I mean, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you do. I mean, you can't be in your station within the body of Christ either.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Without having that kind of obstacles and depression.
Speaker 2:You know, the great thing about that is because, you know, growing up in Islam I kind of felt like, you know, I had to prove that I was always worthy of God, you know, and most religions. If you think about it, if you really study them, it comes down to that you got to prove to the God or the gods that you're worthy of them. Yeah, then with the gospel, is that basically Jesus is like saying in one sense he's saying you know, religions want you to prove that you love God. Yeah, but I am proof that God loves you.
Speaker 1:I know that's so moving.
Speaker 2:And so what that means is that when he comes down and he lives a life I mean, just look at the intentionality of God too because he came in as a child, lived among us, became one of us, lived like us, grew up. So when he grew up in front of us, he grew up in front of God. So that whole idea of like why would God enjoy seeing a part of himself grow up in humanity? Yeah, because God likes to see things grow. So we need to give ourselves a break. That's just so good, right, because hey, you know what You're not amazing right now, that's fine. Guess, what God loves to see you grow. That's what he likes. He likes when you get all awkward and he loves the whole part of it. He likes the baby part of your spirituality, the teenage part of your spirituality, the sassy part, the whole thing. He likes it all. He just he likes. That's why he's like. I kind of like the messiness of your growth. This is the God who grows. He loves to see. This is the.
Speaker 1:God who grows. You need to write another book on that, that's so good. God loves to see you grow. I really know somebody has said that before, but I don't know why all this is hitting me hard today. It's just so right on time and I'm so grateful. I just got back from our botanical gardens and everything's growing and it's just like that's why he that's my new thing Like God loves to see me grow, Come on heart lifters.
Speaker 1:That's why he that's my new thing Like God, likes to see me grow, Come on heart lifters.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Well, I mean, right in the beginning we said you know, when God said let there be light. What we're realizing right now is that statement is still coming true. Wow, yeah, so astrologers are finding out that there is still universes being created, even even now. This is so good that crazy it's just so good.
Speaker 1:I can't stop, but I have to okay, oh, I catch my breath. I knew it would be like this. So one step give us one movement from your work in just this book, sorry, one movement forward as you have moving on about awakening to, bringing beauty and love into our souls, into our life. How can we do that?
Speaker 2:our life. How can we do that? Well, I would say that the premise, if there was one passage of scripture that was the premise of the thesis of this book, would be the passage in Hebrews where it says hey, look to Jesus, because he's the finisher, he's the author and the finisher of our faith, right? But then it says and here's what he did. He said for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. And so I think, right there, I think, as the one simple step is that, hey, kind of like the hack of life is, you've got to put joy in front of you, to endure your crosses. So you've got to do that.
Speaker 2:Because Jesus saw a beautiful humanity that was worth dying for. He pictured a check this out, though. He imagined a humanity that humans were temples of God's spirit. He saw that the spirit of God could reside in them and they could have an open heaven relationship and that, even though hard times would happen, jesus said I've overcome the world. Like he saw something that if he could go through torture, go through the cross, go through death, it would redeem us, rescue us, but then it would just reconnect us to God.
Speaker 1:Brilliance.
Speaker 2:What is a joy? What brings me joy? Love it Like very practical, what brings me joy and is it something that I've put before me? You know, sometimes and you know this, I mean sometimes it's as easy as not easy, but sometimes it's simple, as I like a beautiful place.
Speaker 1:I love a beautiful place that's why I went to the gardens today.
Speaker 2:Yes, hey, what brings me joy? Well, go there. Yeah, do that thing, do that thing. I don't know if people realize this. Jesus exists in joy. God exists in joy. He does. I mean, he sits with us in sadness, but he is in joy.
Speaker 1:So I'm just talking about it Like makes me start smiling. I'm already thinking I want to go to the Outer Banks, I want to go. Where do I want to go? You know, I want to go. Yeah, yeah, and that's a discipline To me. It's a rhythmic practice of my faith.
Speaker 2:Yes, To me it's a rhythmic practice of my faith. You know, even researchers have written about the idea of like. Expressing joy is the most vulnerable thing people can do. So sometimes that's why people, when they laugh, they cover their faces, they cover their mouth, because you know what they think. They think I look terrible laughing out loud.
Speaker 1:I have such a loud laugh. It's embarrassing.
Speaker 2:Right? Yes, it's the most vulnerable thing to do. So just think about it. Is it hard for you to surround yourself with joy and laughter? Yes it is. Is it vulnerable? Yes it is, but is it necessary for your soul? Absolutely. It is Children have no problem doing that, correct?
Speaker 1:No, and my grand little grands? There are three and under. Now they, they don't mock me, it's just like I go cause. I laugh so big and now they go. It's awesome though. All right, I'm not going to cover my mouth anymore. I'm just going to laugh because I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, do it.
Speaker 1:I can't thank you enough, oh, my heartlifter, my community. I know that they are just going to get so much out of this book and be able to add the necessary missing piece to a beautiful, meaningful, eudaimonious life, and that's beauty. And you have brought your artistry to us today and I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2:Thank you, oh, thank you, thank you so much. I mean, that's my prayer. My prayer is that anyone who is listening to this and who has heard maybe a thought from either their fears or the enemy of their soul hey, tomorrow doesn't need me, no one needs me. That's a lie. You know that's a lie. Tomorrow needs you. Someone else's tomorrow needs you.
Speaker 1:That's just a prayer. I'm sorry, go yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping this will you know, not confine people to like can I read one last thing?
Speaker 1:Oh, I asked you to please, yes.
Speaker 2:So I just want to read this because I feel like this is just communicates the heart of this book. So I said I say this I said this book is dedicated to all of us who've ever felt paralyzed by our fears and failures. You know, because I don't know if you know this, but I have dyslexia and dysgraphia.
Speaker 1:So I heard you say your daughter has.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my daughter has dyslexia, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then and I do too so like, yeah, this, this writing this book was so hard for me, but anyways, oh sure. So I said, I said so. This book is dedicated to all of us who have ever felt paralyzed by fears and failures, to all of us who have been through unimaginable trauma and pain, and to all of us who have been going through grief and despair, and to all of us who experience the ugliness of this world. But this book is also a declaration to declaration to our fears and our failures, to our trauma and our pain, to our grief and our despair. You will not imprison us, no, so that's my, that's my blessing. Yeah, benediction, yeah, yeah, so thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:You're so helpful. Yeah, you brought us hope, and that is your whole desire, I know. So thank you.
