Today's Heartlift with Janell
Sometimes the story we tell ourselves is not really true. Sometimes the story others tell about us is not really true. On "Today's Heartlift with Janell," Author, Trauma-informed, board-certified marriage and family specialist, and Professional Heartlifter, Janell Rardon, opens conversations about how emotional health and mental fitness effects absolutely every area of our lives. When we possess and practice healthy, strong, resilient emotional health practices, life is so much better. Read Janell's newest book, "Stronger Every Day: 9 Tools for an Emotionally Healthy You."
Today's Heartlift with Janell
Chasing Sacred with Mikella Van Dyke
What are you chasing? The elusive promise of fulfillment through success, recognition, relationships, or material possessions? Mikella Van Dyke is well acquainted with this pursuit. Growing up as the daughter of Bible translators in Thailand, she experienced firsthand the challenge of finding her identity amid cultural transitions before discovering that while she thought she was chasing God, He had actually been chasing her all along.
Mikella's perspective on Scripture and motherhood brings fresh inspiration to those feeling overwhelmed by life's demands. Drawing from Psalm 23:6, where she discovered that "follow" actually means "to chase," she reveals how God's goodness and mercy have been pursuing us with extravagant love. This revelation transformed her understanding of spiritual growth and her approach to raising five children, ages two to ten, while maintaining her ministry.
Order Mikella's book: Chasing Sacred
Find Mikella on Instagram: @chasingsacred and @mikellavandyke
Visit her website and learn more about her work: Mikella Van Dyke
Revisit Episode 330 and join the August Social Media Reset Challenge with Janell and Author, Allie Marie Smith.
Find Allie Marie on Instagram: @alliemariesmith
Begin Your Heartlifter's Journey:
- Visit and subscribe to Heartlift Central on Substack. This is our new online coaching center and meeting place for Heartlifters worldwide.
- Download the "Overcoming Hurtful Words" Study Guide PDF: BECOMING EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY
- Meet me on Instagram: @janellrardon
- Leave a review and rate the podcast: WRITE A REVIEW
- Learn more about my books and work: Janell Rardon
- Make a tax-deductible donation through Heartlift International
As I've listened to the stories of thousands of women of all ages in all kinds of stages through the years, I've kept their stories locked in the vault of my heart. I feel as if they've been walking around with me all through these years. They've bothered me, they've prodded me and sometimes kept me up at night. Ultimately, they've increased my passion to reframe and reimagine the powerful positions of mother and matriarch within the family system. I'm a problem solver, so I set out to find a way to perhaps change the trajectory of this silent and sad scenario about a dynamic yet untapped source of potential and purpose sitting in our homes and churches. It is time to come to the table, heartlifters, and unleash the power of maternal presence into the world. Welcome to Mothering for the Ages, our 2025 theme, here on today's Heartlift. I'm Janelle. I am your guide here on this heartlifting journey. I invite you to grab a pen, a journal and a cup of something really delicious. May today's conversation give you clarity, courage and a revived sense of camaraderie. You see, you're not on this journey alone. We are unified as heartlifters and committed to bringing change into the world, one heart at a time. Hello, heartlifter, and welcome to today's Heart Lift with Janelle. Today we are going to chase sacred. Michaela Van Dyke is here to talk to us about her newest book, chasing Sacred. Oh, I love that we are going to chase the sacred for the rest of the summer here on the show. I have a question that I want to ask that McKella talks about in the beginning of her book what if you had never read or known the Bible? How would your life be different? Today we're going to dive deep into this question here and over on Heart Lift Central's sub stack at Heart Lift Central. So be thinking about how your life would be different if you had never read or known the Bible. Mckella helps us to chase the sacredness of God's holy word and to understand the many meta-narratives within this precious book that I call my favorite book. Michaela Van Dyke is the founder of Chasing Sacred, a ministry that provides resources to help women study the Bible and grow closer to God. Isn't that why we're even here? Isn't that why we're even here? To draw closer, to grow closer to a living, breathing God. What began as a devotional blog became an organization with a team of writers who produced theologically rich Bible study resources. As McKella studied for her MA in Practical Theology at Regent University, she fell deeply in love with the process of hermeneutics and wanted to spread her knowledge and love of God and the Word to others. She also serves at her local church, hope Fellowship in Jaffray, new Hampshire, where she co-leads as the Director of Women's Ministries, which includes teaching Bible studies and mothers of preschoolers. She is a delight. You are going to love Michaela and her story. So please, please, get a cup of something delicious and welcome Michaela to the show.
Speaker 1:You have this online ministry, chasing Sacred, and now your beautiful, beautiful book. It is so lovely, the cover is delicious and I am really in love with chasing, like chasing sacred. I looked up chase because that's what we do here. We love the words and then we love the words under the words and inside the words, and it means to hurry after something or someone in order to catch him or her or it.
Speaker 1:I was just on FaceTime with my son and my little two and a half year old grandbaby, isaac, and they were outside and it was beautiful and all of a sudden, isaac runs up to Grant. My son gets in his face, up to Grant. My son gets in his face, he's talking to me, gets in his face, literally interrupts, which was so darling, and goes something to the effect time to run. It's run time, and so I said what is that? Well, it's just a time where you know Grant chases him and he chases Grant. They're, you know Grant chases him and he chases Grant, and it was a beautiful way to wear him out, but it was also just so precious. This chasing thing is really big, with toddlers and preschoolers, right. And so why did you choose chasing? That's so important, that verb, I know there must be a story, wow.
Speaker 2:First of all, what a beautiful visual. I know so beautiful, I think so. When I was a young mom, I was really struggling. Where I was at, I had moved, I was experiencing. So I'm a third culture kid, which means I had grown up in Thailand. I was really struggling to assimilate to American culture. And I just remember I was in my Bible and I was trying so hard. I had all these things that I was trying to get to fulfill me. You know, I was in my Bible and I was trying so hard I had all these things that I was trying to get to fulfill me. You know, I was chasing like ambition, I was chasing friendship, I was chasing all these things, but it was really only the word of God that satisfied me. So I was chasing all these things.
Speaker 2:But there's a second part to this story of I named it Chasing Sacred, and the whole time I had this visual of me chasing after God, all these things. Well, had this visual of me chasing after God, all these things. Well, it wasn't until years into my ministry that God gave me Psalm 23, six. That says surely your goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life and that follow word. I looked up and it actually means to chase. No, the Lord really brought it full circle for me of McKella. You thought you were chasing me. No, I've always been chasing you, and that just has always been this visual for me of like as much as my heart has been set and I've tried, you know so diligently, to go after God instead of all of these other things that are often vying for my attention. It's really been God chasing me all, along with his extravagant love, mercy and goodness, and so that's what that means to me.
Speaker 1:It's such a visual. I've been myself in the realm of understanding God's love for me. I've been studying John 4 for about three years and I've said this story so many times here. But once again you're bringing new information, because that's what the Word of God does. It unfolds all the time and everyone gets a different piece of it.
Speaker 1:And I study words I never knew that follow in, that Psalm 236, that it had the derivative of chase. 6, Psalm 23 6, that it had the derivative of chase. And I do think now I get it because he has been chasing me. I think I get that Like it's really hard to wrap your head around it, Like I really thought I knew the love of God, but I really didn't. I probably still don't, really didn't. I probably still don't. He just really loves us so so much. So thank you for studying the Word and allowing the Spirit to bring that to you, because now you're bringing it to us. I think there are many, many of us who are seeking and chasing so many alternatives, so many alternatives, when in fact we really do need to chase after God, because he's chasing after us. That's so, so beautiful.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that you're a third culture kid. I have one of my dearest, dearest friends, like a sister, who's been in Thailand for almost maybe it is 40 years. I think, oh, yeah, yeah, she's something. 40 years, I think, oh, yeah, yeah, she's something.
Speaker 2:Wow, no way. What part of Thailand? Bangkok? Okay, yep.
Speaker 1:Yep. So they served the went as missionaries, initially serving Klung Toi, the biggest slum area, and doing microfinance, but over the years it has evolved and evolved, of course, very net, to the point now where they're actually changing helping to change laws that have to do with children and orphans and how what is a, you know, not an orphanage, let's have family based care. They're just remarkable. And they raised four children as well, and so I've watched her journey and I know the challenges of being a third culture kid. You say that it truly was. The Bible was the bedrock. Your parents were translators, still are, am I assuming?
Speaker 2:they still are. They are still translating Yep.
Speaker 1:Holy cow. So what language? What part of Thailand were you in? I've read your story, but my listeners have not yet so.
Speaker 2:So I lived in Chiang Mai Thailand.
Speaker 1:Okay, up north.
Speaker 2:Yep, up north, you're good. My parents actually worked with a Southeast Asian people minority group on the border of Thailand and Burma, so they translate the Bible for a minority group and they've been doing so. They finished the New Testament a while ago, when I was actually still in high school, so I remember that, and then now they've actually still been working on the Old Testament with a group of translators, national translators alike, and then they also oversee a bunch of consulting now. So what they do is my mom's a consultant. She'll go and travel actually and help other people groups with their translations. And then my dad oversees funding for a bunch of Bible translations in Southeast Asia, and so they are like still doing the Old Testament, but they're also very involved in overseeing a bunch of other translations as well.
Speaker 2:And that's just really where their heart is, and I think, growing up, seeing them always pouring over the word of God, it was more of a visual. I feel like my parents were more like facilitators in the fact that they were themselves living it out, and so really for me, the most powerful representation of that was it just kind of ebbed and flowed from their personal journey. It was less like. You need to do this, michaela, you need to do that. It was more like God was showing me this in my scripture reading this morning and I was really struggling with this. But you know, god really revealed to me this in this passage and so I got this front row seat to the way the scriptures were being worked out in their life.
Speaker 2:And so I think, as I grew up and experienced a lot of challenges as a young, I look back and I'm like, actually it was really challenging kind of going from the States, from Thailand to the States, and moving back and forth, and then also just the confusion, the uncertainty that came with being a third culture kid, but it was really that they had taught me that the foundation of my life was the Bible, and so I would always, just constantly go back to the word of God and find solace in the scriptures, and that was what really got me through depression during that time constant cultural moves and those feelings of uncertainty, and so that's kind of where a lot of my love of the word of God came from.
Speaker 1:I would say so and I would say, identity shaking Like I'm in Thailand, I'm in America. Who the heck am I? I don't know where I belong. There's so many aspects of being a third culture kid, which is not what our conversation is about, but I think it, what I think is fascinating in your story and we're really talking about mothering this year and motherhood, and I am now moving into a matriarchal position and I just really feel in my spirit that the maternal presence the world needs, our mothering. Mothering doesn't mean you have to birth a child, but the mothering presence, and so when you talk about your parents, their work is so invisible, right, you're talking about ego and ambition and chasing these different things. Has that impacted you? Because your ministry is visible, very public, and so I'm just curious, as a child in that scene and now as a mother to your five, how did that impact you in your as a mother and also in as a minister, or as a vote in your vocation, however you want to say it.
Speaker 2:It has impacted me a lot, because I've actually gone to my mom with a lot of different things that I've struggled with, and one of those being like I would really want to do more ministry. I have five kids, and so the balance. What are their ages, by the way? Yeah, so the youngest is two and the oldest is ten.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I interrupted. The youngest is two and the oldest is Ten. You did say 10, two to 10. Okay, mckella, drop some. Drop some wisdom here on how you are managing all of it.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right you asked your mom.
Speaker 2:I asked my mom because I had this burgeoning ministry and I really sometimes ego and ambition make us want to do more of that and less of the unseen things, and so I was talking to my mom about it and my mom was just like Michaela. Dad and I have worked for years on Bible translation. We've done all this stuff. We moved to like this different country. We learned a language. She gave me like and I saw it all. It was heartache and hard and there was just this richness of like they're doing this crazy work for God, of like they're doing this crazy work for God, and she's like and still she's like.
Speaker 2:I can look back and say the most important thing I did was you guys, is like the relationship I had with you guys, and I still, to this day, say that's my greatest honor, my greatest accomplishment and my most thing that I am most proud of in my entire life and that, to me, she keeps me very grounded because I'm like okay, I could do everything and anything.
Speaker 2:I can speak online, I can lead all these people, I can go to do these Bible studies, but really there's nothing like being a mom and I say that graciously because I know there's so many people in all different walks of life that that looks different for.
Speaker 2:But I think every time you have whether you know, and so I'm not saying this just to stay at home moms, I'm saying it to working moms too Whatever time you have like, know that it is important. And often I have to tell myself this is the most important thing I'm going to do today. And I do that when I am changing a diaper, I do that when I'm making dinner, I do that when I'm really exhausted and I have to stay up late again having a really big heart conversation with my oldest and I said this is the most important thing you could do today. And it's not speaking online to people, it's not doing all these other things, and so really staying grounded in that, watching my parents have this amazing ministry for God, and yet my parents both say the most important thing was us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how do you do that? I mean, heartlifters know how I feel about mothering, so, but it doesn't have to be binary. Is that what I'm hearing? It isn't all or nothing. And I had that mentality. I grew up in the evangelical world where women were supposed to be homemakers and stay home. There's still some conversation about that very loud conversation about homemakers in the world today. Who did work. It was really looked down upon, and so when I did go to work and open a dance studio and do these things, you know it was frowned upon. I mean, I actually had one minister tell me God just didn't take his hand off my life. And so we know that's skewed now. We know that's unhealthy, we know it's toxic. But how do you? I mean, I'm assuming, I'm assuming some things, but I would love to hear you say how do you do that?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, it's a great question, janelle. I also have owned a dance studio, so, yes, anyways, michaela, oh my gosh, I love it. So I think I like to say this over and over again we see these formulaic, almost formula-based parenting methods online. We see them everywhere we look and I want to kind of buck against the system. I really believe that each parent, it is Holy Spirit led and it is based on what the Spirit is leading you to do with each kid, and each kid is different.
Speaker 2:And so my mom constantly reminds me Michaela, you need to pray and ask in this situation, at this time, lord, what do I do with this child? And in this situation, at this time, do I take the speaking event? At this situation, at this time, do I add on more ministry wise? And so I really prayed, like Lord. As far as my schedule goes, how much time and energy should I put into my ministry, and how much time and energy should I be full time at, and how much time and energy should I be full-time at home? That means a lot of boundaries for me personally, because I know myself my phone is a huge distraction. It is a huge distraction to being a present mom, and so I have massive, very serious things that I do with my phone. That is personally. For me it's not a prescription for anyone listening.
Speaker 1:It is what I'd like to hear your. I'd like to hear it Cause I think that maybe it would be very beneficial. You know we've done a lot on digital detox and those types of things and you know what do you do, because I think that you're here for a reason for us and we would love to learn.
Speaker 2:Okay, so personally, my phone being an online person online that does ministry it can be addictive, and so I had to say, okay, Lord, what does it look like to me be fully present with my kids? I have strict guidelines for my kids' allowance of TV. I also need to have strict guidelines for myself.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, well, they're going to. You know what you said before about your mom and dad. There's a beautiful saying that FB Meyer, one of my greatest love theologians from the past. He would just say more is caught than taught, More is caught than taught. So you just said your parents imaged, said your parents imaged how vital the word of God was for them. So you caught it. They didn't put it on you, you just watched, okay. So your children are watching you, they're watching us, my grandchildren are watching me. Now that's a whole nother realm, you know, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I believe that full-heartedly in my parenting is that more is caught than taught, and so what I like to do is I have open discussions with my kids, but they know like my phone does not come out until after I've done all of their school stuff, so it's like getting all their stuff together I'm doing. I put my phone on airplane mode at night until the morning. I have to do my Bible before my phone can be a huge distraction from hearing even the Lord while I'm reading my.
Speaker 2:Bible. So I have airplane mode. I just got a house phone actually that, um, because of this I've been thinking about this.
Speaker 1:So so many fascinating things with you, michaela, speaking to me. I love it, go ahead.
Speaker 2:So the house phone actually is based off of the fact that I have done all of these things and it's still a problem. And so my conversation with my husband was you know, I tried the no phone in the mornings until noon. I tried the no phone during the days until nap time. I've tried all these things, I've done and redone, and so this is like the thing, it's fluid, right. I have done so many phone boundaries and so many times they fail.
Speaker 2:I've done I have a time limit for Instagram on my phone. You're only allowed to be there an hour a day. It locks me out.
Speaker 1:So I think this is this is just I didn't know I could do that, that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:So I have like you know. So, anyways, that being said, I told my husband I want to try something new. I want to get a house phone. And then what I'm going to do with that house phone, I have it. I haven't set it up yet, but it's here in my house.
Speaker 2:So that was on my list this week, but what I'm going to do is give that house phone number to the most important people in my life. Those are the people that need to reach me, that I want to be reached by, and then everyone else, like we've made ourselves so accessible to the world and not accessible to those that are in our house and accessible to God, and so what my whole mindset is is I will know, and that will give me that safety net of you know, my best friend can call me if she needs me, my husband can call me if he needs me, my mother-in-law if she needs me, but other than that, I don't need to be accessible to everyone, and that's my limitations, and so that's kind of where I'm at. I have that here now.
Speaker 1:It runs off Wi-Fi, I guess, but that is so fascinating because that was my life, like I had a yellow phone on the wall when I was raising children, with an eight foot cord, because I did happen to be on it a lot, but certainly it wasn't in my hand. I did happen to be on it a lot, but certainly it wasn't in my hand, it wasn't my appendage, you know. And so I don't know how you're raising children and I tell my children that. And then how do you do the screen? So in all of that is how central like you are a Bible-centric woman, mother, wife, you do get up every morning and read the Bible. I mean, that's amazing to me.
Speaker 2:I have, since, even with and I've talked to people I've been like, well, how do you do that? Like even when you're breastfeeding, even when you were up all night, and I said, yeah, but for me it's like, if I don't, I feel it Like I, it's almost like I have to. I'm that desperate for that wisdom that knowledge or for God's perspective on my life. Because it's so chaotic with five little kids I had them really close. It's hard.
Speaker 1:I mean, I had, you know, twins and a four-year-old when they were born, and so I. It's just chaos, you know, and five hold my word. 10 to two that is nuts. What a boy girl. Where are they I?
Speaker 2:have four boys and one girl. Oh sweet Lord Jesus, you really have a crazy household. Oh, the boys amp each other up. It is hard and that's why I think I'm also sensitive to prescriptive models of parenting, because my house is that chaotic, like you have boys like hunting each other and doing all these things and you can just get so frustrated Like what's wrong with my house, but it's like no, I think that's kind of the danger of social media is nothing's wrong with your house.
Speaker 2:Like, pray about it. The spirit can work and you know, my mom recently said to me Michaela, pray, that the spirit would show you what God is already doing in your kids, instead of what you want constantly done, oh say, that again, or I'll say it again that's so good.
Speaker 2:Pray that the Holy Spirit would show you what God is already doing in your kids he's already working instead of just constantly harping on what needs to be done. And I did pray that prayer this last two weeks and I feel like the Lord just opened my eyes to all. Yes, he is. He's working so powerfully in each of my kids in so many beautiful ways, but sometimes I'm so focused on what still needs to happen that I miss. The Spirit has already been working in each of their lives in so many different ways.
Speaker 1:That is such a powerful word for mothers of adult children.
Speaker 2:Hear that.
Speaker 1:I know you're listening, so we need to hear that. I'm taking that to heart. You know and it has been my goal for this year, one of my whatever you want to call them, I'll call it an intention you know to do that. We're so prone to the negative. Well, we have a, you know, a negativity bias in our brain. God put it there. But that is a good word for this due season. I'm so grateful for your mother. She is a maternal presence, obviously a very powerful presence. How many siblings did you have?
Speaker 2:So I had a brother, a younger brother and an older sister. I would say my parents are just an extreme source of wisdom for me. So, even through this book writing process and everything, I had one point that my parents had read over my manuscript and had written a bunch of notes and I had accidentally sent it, I think, to my publisher with my parents' notes on it, and one of them made like a comment like what a group project. I love that so much. Oh, it made me laugh so hard Cause I'm like, yeah, my parents have so much theological wisdom and insight Like I am not letting them not look over this manuscript.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I think that's so stunningly beautiful. It's not normal. I mean, 55% of families are you know, we don't are not secure attached families about secure attachment, and you sure are imaging that so beautiful and I'm so grateful that their, their work, is going through you. It's really amazing Because, like we said before, there is a lot of problematic situations with third culture kids. So good job.
Speaker 2:I love attachment theory, so I love, attachment theory.
Speaker 1:I'm obsessed. You know I am heart lifter, sorry, I have to bring it up every time. Okay, so you live a very God centric, of course, bible centric, and in your book, in the very first chapter, my son just texted me because I said tell me exactly what Isaac said. And he said running time. I mean he got this close to his face and he's like running time and I'm like I don't know what that is. It was just like.
Speaker 1:And then I, here I am, you know, this week, doing chasing sacred. So that's going to be my image. I get to see, I can see me in God's face going running time. You know so sweet. So you have part one. Why chase sacred? Find something worth chasing after. I am obsessed with that chapter because you know what, michaela, I'm still chasing after things ego, ambition, all of that worth self-worth, you know, recognition, oh my gosh, what if I die today? What have I left? I'm getting closer to, I'm aging. So find something worth chasing after is my takeaway. There's a million from this book, but I think I'm going to be sitting with that in my journaling and in my prayer time. You also are kicking me in the butt. I'm going to say it that way, to open my Bible every morning, because I'd open my phone first, so okay, Full disclosure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love my physical Bible and I think it's just there's nothing like it to gain context and write and draw in it and yeah, notes I date them, because I have a few.
Speaker 1:So, I'm like each grandchild might get one. And then part two is who helps us chase sacred? I would like to just stop there for a moment, because we don't talk about the role of the spirit as much as we used sacred. I would like to just stop there for a moment, because we don't talk about the role of the spirit as much as we used to. I was charismatic for 25 years, so that's kind of all we talked about, and now not so much in different denominations that I'm in or have been in. So why is the role of the spirit and the role of prayer under that category of who helps us chase sacred?
Speaker 2:I love that question, first of all because here I am. You know I'm teaching on the inductive Bible study method.
Speaker 1:Yes, we haven't got to that. That's what.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about. But you cannot apply Scripture without the role of prayer and the role of the Spirit. And so what I mean by that is Bible reading. Is we hear from God? It's about the who at the end of the pages. You're developing a relationship, but then prayer is the way we communicate to God, and so it is a two-way relationship. And so I always say start your Bible reading with prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to help you interpret the text, because it's the Spirit that illuminates the text for us and brings about understanding. And we know that because all throughout scripture it talks about that. I actually have a verse here in John 14, 26.
Speaker 1:Oh, please.
Speaker 2:It says the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all the things and remind you of everything I have said to you. And that's really the role of the Spirit is to help us interpret and illuminate and then convict us. After we read the text of the application, and so I actually give the example in my book of a light up sign. And why I said that is sometimes when we're reading the pages of Scripture it's almost like something lights up at us or pops out of the pages. And that's the work of the spirit is to then bring us to understand the message and the truth right that God is, but also to convict us of any wrongdoing, any application. So there's usually two types of application. We'll draw from the text, which is knowing or doing texts. Is this something I need to know about God's character to help encourage?
Speaker 1:me.
Speaker 2:Or is this something that I need to do? Do I need to go and make amends with somebody? Do I need to forgive someone in my heart? Like what is the Holy Spirit prompting me to do?
Speaker 2:And so, in that analogy of the light up sign, I talk about how I was at this event, you know, in the center of town and it kind of like this, like sign, like lit up and then just like sold out, like it like burned out, um, and I was like you know, the reliability of God's word is it's going to continually speak to you. The spirit is we can be confident in the spirits help to help us interpret the text. It's just that also. Then I talk about the inductive Bible study method, where there is ways that we can go about interpreting the text in a way that we're considering the historical, cultural and literary context.
Speaker 2:And so what this did for me as somebody who was so familiar with scripture. I had grown up in the word. My parents were Bible translators. I grew up in a faith-based household. It was loving. It pointed me towards the word of God. But it wasn't until I got my master's in theology, where I took a hermeneutics class, which is the study of biblical interpretation that I realized that I could study the Bible even more in depth, fascinating.
Speaker 2:So it's been a journey and God has brought me on it and been so gracious and merciful. You know there's been so many hiccups along the way. I always say when we approach Bible study, we do it graciously. We're never going to know everything. We approach it with humility. We know that. You know we are limited in our understanding and our mindset. We bring preconceptions that we have to the text presuppositions, but at the same time we can be confident because the scripture is meant to be applied. It is meant to be understood and applied, and so we can be confident that the Holy Spirit is going to work it out for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's alive. It's alive. It says the Bible is alive. You did identify it in your book. It is a self-help in a sense. Most people don't want to ever say the Bible is self-help. But all I've ever said after I went and got my master's in counseling in my fifties, you know it was like boy Paul, paul is brilliant. He, I mean he was like a psychologist, psychiatrist, whatever you want to say, you know you don't have to go any further than the word of God, and if we would see it as a quickening, as an understanding that it's alive, wow, I think we would see a lot more emotional maturity, mental fitness as well as spiritual maturity. So I love your passion. It's almost as though you're reviving the passion in a time where so many are deconstructing, myself included, or disillusioned with all of these things. I'm not disillusioned with the Bible, ever. I'm not disillusioned with Jesus. I'm just disillusioned with the system, perhaps. But you're encouraging me, janelle. This will never fail you. Everything else will, but the Word of God will not, and I'm so, so grateful. I love that.
Speaker 1:You quoted Martin Luther. You say to progress is to always start again. And is that what you're saying? Is that what I'm hearing? You quoted Martin Luther. You say to progress is to always start again. And is that what you're saying? Is that what I'm hearing you really say? You know like.
Speaker 2:It is because I think often, when we're so familiar with passages of scripture, I think we can be like you know what, I'm a little jaded, or like you talked about, like I've heard these stories explained or exposited a million times and this is what I got out of it. But when we begin again and look with fresh eyes at the pages of scripture and really think through, like what is the context of this passage? I relearned so much of the.
Speaker 2:Bible, from what I assumed was, you know, taught to me or explained to me in a certain way, but learned it for myself. And I think every Christian has to go through that process of where they begin again with the gospel. They begin again, look at the pages with fresh eyes and saying all right, Lord, teach me and help me to see what is in the text.
Speaker 1:What is God's?
Speaker 2:fear.
Speaker 1:I love that so much. Yes, I will close here, because the inductive Bible study is something that Kay author, you know, brought to us so many years ago. Yeah and yeah. So you learned of this inductive Bible study through the hermeneutics class. How? Did that unfold for you.
Speaker 2:Yep. So I went off and I got my master's in theology and I took this hermeneutics class. It was just one of the many classes I was taking and I remember just my eyes being so opened to seeing the historical context, like what was the author saying to the audience? And the professor was like all right, we're going to study. I think it was in a gospel, I think it was Mark. I want to say, and he said I want you to find just 10 observations from this one tiny verse. And I was like 10 observations, like which observations are? Like what do I see? So, basically, they're like marking up your Bible. They're seeing repeated words, they're seeing keywords, they're seeing what is in the text, like what is the author saying? Paraphrase. And I was like 10 observations. I'm like I don't have any observations, like it's just, I read it Like it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, what is? Like, what is he talking about? And so that class just opened my eyes so much. And I was, you know, a newer mom. I had two kids at the time. They would nap and I would get into this class and I just remember looking forward to it every day with great anticipation. What am I going to learn? I can't wait. Like this is so exciting. I had no idea I could read the Bible like this, and so I would look forward, look forward, look forward. And they would go down for a nap and I'd eagerly open up my computer and do my work for the class.
Speaker 1:And it was like I was mining for treasure.
Speaker 2:I saw all these things I had never before and I found it for myself, and it was so empowering to be able to be like, wow, this is the way God was teaching me and this is what he revealed to me, this is what this word means and this is how to do word study, and so I think, like in a culture where you know other people's soundbites and TikTok videos and Instagram and you know everything is competing for our attention. We have podcasts after podcasts.
Speaker 2:We have all these things that want to inform you, but it's a secondary source, and so I think like to be able to really open up the pages of scripture for yourself, see what God is saying and apply it to your life and just allow it, like you said, to apply to like real life relationships and emotionally to speak to you and then you speak back to God and have this really full relationship with Jesus Christ. I think that is an anomaly. I mean, it's just so rare these days.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I wanted to encourage people to do through this book.
Speaker 1:I think you are rare in these days and I am really grateful for this book Chasing Sacred. The final closing note where should someone? Let's say someone. Well, first, I have to say, I teach an online course for introduction to coaching, counseling, and one of the things that we do is look for destiny events in our life and then when you're looking for these destiny events or you're looking for your passion, you get louder when you're talking.
Speaker 1:Your face gets excited, you gain energy. Well, you just image that so you can't fake that. I mean, I guess you could, but it sounds as though it energizes you. So for me, when I'm scrolling, comparing, becoming envious, feeling like, well, I'm certainly not good enough and that woman's a better mother than me and her this and that and the other is, oh, it's draining. Draining. My truest being you know what makes you light up, like that sign that Michaela saw right.
Speaker 1:The Bible is really active in your life and studying and learning. One of my mantras is always learning, always growing, like Michelangelo on Karampara, Perhaps someone listening. You know, take a class, do something that's going to make you come alive and give you energy. And I'm front, I'm in the front of the line. I just saw that image to me and it's, it's true, it's radiance, you know, and I want that for all of us, and that's what's going to empower us as women. So where should someone start? Number one, with your book Chasing Sacred. Of course, Someone has kind of put the Bible over there and it's collecting dust. Where would you suggest they start?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would suggest they start in a gospel. I think those are. You know, it gives us the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and so I think that's a great place to start, and then another one would be an epistle, because I think both of those aren't as overwhelming. You know, starting in something like a pith or something Deuteronomy. So I think, start and then also like, don't put pressure on yourself. I think, like, if you are wanting to go deeper, my book is a great place to start.
Speaker 1:It's a great place.
Speaker 2:Wherever books are sold. But I think, um, if you don't want to overwhelm yourself like, don't, like, I my I teach a slow down approach to scripture. Sometimes they're so great and they're so wonderful to have this big writing Bible reading plan but, they can also leave us feeling really bad about ourselves when we don't keep up or we're not able to read these big chunks, and so you know what Any time in scripture is not wasted. That's what I'd like to say.
Speaker 1:I love the slow down approach because I'm a teacher too. So if I get in a Bible, like you, and all the observations and Lectio Divina and all of these things, I just hone in on a sentence and I get in a word study and I can't get through the Bible in a year. It just isn't possible and I'm sure someone will challenge me to the wazoo. But I like the slow down approach, I like to linger, I like for the spirit to illuminate. So you're helping us do all those things and, michaela, it has been a absolute joy to have your radiance with us and your passion, because you know, more is caught than taught.
Speaker 2:So it's been such a pleasure to get to know you more and this has been a great conversation, thank you. Thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, oh, heartlifter. I love the challenge that McKella is giving us On page 22 in Chasing Sacred. She writes With all the things vying for our attention these days, are we giving God's word its rightful place in our lives? Are we chasing what's important? Are we chasing what's important? It is easy to run headfirst in a myriad of directions, whether it is finding comfort, looking for importance and education and accolades, or doing what feels right in the moment.
Speaker 1:She says I have spent decades chasing many different things, but none of these pursuits have been as life-changing as chasing God. I have a specific memory of when the Lord prompted me to slow down in chasing influence, persuasion and meaning and instead chase the One capital O-N-E from whom all these things naturally flow. I was holding my son, who was a baby at the time, and he grabbed the water I had just set on the table. It spilled all over him. I just remember thinking that we often grab that which we cannot hold. We often grab that which we cannot hold. A lofty and meaningful chase, however, will always lead to God. Every day, we are bombarded with the message that certain products will make our lives better. Yet we have over 100 different translations of the English Bible at our fingertips. Are we availing ourselves of this priceless resource? Don't let the excitement of scripture be lost on you Before we continue. She writes on this journey in this book Chasing Sacred. Please pray this prayer with me. So, heartlifters, I pray it with you right now. Lord, give me the desire, the hunger, the thirst to understand your word and help me grow closer to you through reading your words. Amen, through reading your words. Amen, heartlifter.
Speaker 1:On episode 330, with Allie Marie Smith, she asked is it time for a social media reset? Today, I am merging these two authors, these two powerful, lovely, remarkable, heartlifting women Allie Marie Smith and McKella Van Dyke, and their work, and I am going to take a social media reset in August. Yes, I'm working out all the details in order to give myself to God's word, to seek his face as to how he wants me to move into this third act in my life. It's timely. You know we've been saying this for a long time now. When the student is ready, the teacher or teachers appear, and I feel that McKella and Allie Marie and so many of our guests here on the show and those that are coming in the next few weeks oh, just wait, it's so good, are here to tell us that we need to chase the sacred, because the sacred is chasing us. Join me at Heart Lift Central on Substack, where we are going to ask ourselves some very important questions and dig deeper into chasing the sacred. I'll see you there.
