356. Letting Go of the Familiar, Part 2

Stephanie Watson, author and founder of "The Table," shares from her new book, Ruth's Need for a Redeemer: A Bible Study on Loss, Loyalty, and Unexpected Love. 

We linger on Ruth’s crossroads moment: return to what’s familiar, or risk the unknown with God. It’s the same decision we all might face when our Moab feels safe, but our Bethlehem is calling. 

In Part 2, we pick up our conversation with Stephanie Watson, author of Ruth's Need for a Redeemer, to explore Ruth’s bold decision to cling to Ruth—not to her own comfort, and to cling to God’s promises lived through Naomi’s life. The scene is raw: Naomi urges a return, grief narrowing her vision; Orpah turns back. Ruth stays, and that single act reframes what healthy attachment looks like in a world that often confuses strength with self-sufficiency.

Press play for a fresh, grounded take on choice, grief, community, and redemption. If this resonates, share it with a friend, start a table, and leave a rating and review to help others find the show. What are you clinging to today?

Chapters

• 0:05 Recap And Dusty Road Crossroads
• 2:27 Naomi’s Grief And The Outsider Reality
• 4:24 Ruth Clings: Love, Loyalty, And Faith
• 7:15 Healthy Clinging Versus Codependence
• 10:45 Providence Behind The Scenes
• 14:54 Choosing The Unknown With God
• 17:30 Comfort, Strength, And Vulnerability
• 20:26 Starting “The Table” Bible Studies
• 24:05 Study Structure And Sharing What You Learn
• 27:40 The Redeemer Series: Ruth, Hannah, Mary
• 29:52 Closing Reflections And Listener Invitation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

Hello and welcome to today's Heartlift with Chanel. I'm Janelle, your guide, for part two of my remarkable conversation with author Stephanie Watson. She wrote Ruth's Need for a Redeemer. And last week we closed on a dusty road between Moab and Bethlehem, where three women, Ruth, Orpah, and Naomi, were at a crossroads, standing at a threshold of making major life changes. And our beautiful guide for that journey, Stephanie, posed these thoughts.

SPEAKER_03: 0:56

This is the moment for Ruth and Orpah. Is are they going to go to the to the new world, which means are they going to step out of faith and follow God into the unknown? Or are they going to return to what is comfortable and what they already know? But what is comfortable and what they already know is not with God.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18

No.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

Now life isn't always that black or white. But I think we can all say we've been at a crossroads, standing on a threshold of transformation, leading the familiar. Maybe we're not traveling on a dusty road by foot, but we've stood at a crossroads. We've stood at a threshold where we knew change was inevitable, and that we were being invited into the unfamiliar, into the unknown. So as we continue our conversations on healthy detachments, what we're letting go of from last year to this year, let's continue to have a mind of reflection and to consider the invitations that might be unfolding before each one of us. Welcome, Stephanie, back to the show.

SPEAKER_03: 2:27

Stark contrast, right? Yes, it's a stark, stark contrast. And this is the only part that I want to be mad at Naomi because what Naomi does is she urges them to go back. She does.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40

Why do you think she does that?

SPEAKER_03: 2:42

Three times, three times she tells them to return. And and why? Because Naomi is human, because she is real, because she knows that these women are not going to be accepted in Israel. They are outsiders. And the Israelites are not going to want Moabites coming into their land. And I also think that there's a sense of when she sees her daughter-in-laws, she sees the loss of her sons. Yeah. Grief. Grief. And there is something that's so real in that that we don't want to take the baggage of our grief with us.

SPEAKER_00: 3:27

There it is. Oh, sorry. No, it's do they remind her of her loss?

SPEAKER_03: 3:37

I I believe that they do. And they remind her of the decision that her family made to leave Israel in the midst of the famine. When God didn't tell them to leave Israel, they just on their own they decided that that would be better for them.

SPEAKER_00: 3:52

Yeah, they're this is where it gets layered to me, though. When you say it's a simple story, it's not just a love story, it's a it's a story about choice.

SPEAKER_03: 4:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 4:03

And about following, obedience, listening. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 4:09

In this conversation, Naomi just after the third time of saying, go back, you know, and Orpah has already decided this lady doesn't want me with her anymore. I'm gonna go back. But what does Ruth do? It says, at this, they wept aloud again. Then Orpah kissed her mother-in-law goodbye, but Ruth clung to her. That word. Ruth clung to her. And and this clinging to me is like when you know when there's a toddler that's clinging to their mother's leg, and there is nothing that you can do to even try to separate just even a finger from that child of their mother's leg. And it this clinging is desperate.

SPEAKER_00: 4:54

Yeah, it is desperate. Can we say it's her love and her respect and her, I don't think I can do life without you at my table, without you in my world. I I don't know. Am I adding to the story? Don't want to add.

SPEAKER_03: 5:13

I I don't I don't think you're adding. I think that there is, I think that there's layers to this clinging and this layer to this love. But and I think behind it all, because you you see this in roots, where you go, I will go. Where you stay, I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God, my God. And so it's not just Naomi she is clinging to. Yes, it's it's to her proximity to the Lord. Yeah, that's it. That's good. She knows that she has to go with Naomi so that she can know the one true God, so that she can be a part of his promises. Yeah, I can't lose that that feeling.

SPEAKER_00: 5:52

I can't lose what I feel when I'm around you. We all have someone in our life that we love being in their presence.

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:00

Like they just give us an exhale.

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:04

You know, I was talking to my three and a half year old and my two-year-old granddaughters last week. They live in Belgium. And after our conversation, it had been a rougher little day in their world. And after the conversation, you know, I love it when they start talking and they start reasoning a little teeny bit at three and a half. And she just went, I feel much calmer now. She's a trip. I feel much calmer. She told her mommy, I feel much calmer now. I was like, Did she just say that because she talked to me? Like, oh, but we all have, we want it. If we don't, maybe that's a great prayer for this year. I have been praying that for not only to be that luminous presence, but also bring some community back into my life where I feel that safety and security, right?

SPEAKER_03: 7:01

Well, and the people that when you are with them, you feel closer to the Lord because that is you may not know that's what it is, yeah, yeah, but she knew I just can't be away from that.

SPEAKER_00: 7:16

I I've taught, I have listened to this teaching, I've been in Ruth Bible studies, but you are really bringing I I just I I can see your wheels turning. I love it so much. You're just bringing such a fresh passion to her story. And I thank you for that personally. Because what am I clinging to? Right.

SPEAKER_01: 7:38

Right.

unknown: 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:40

I wrote all about that word clinging in my last book, and so here you're bringing some fresh revelation, which is how God moves. Yeah, that's the passion of the scriptures as well. Absolutely. I think you can know it, and then you're like, mm-mm, there's more there. There's always more there. There's always more there because the vessel, you're the vessel for this beautiful study. And so, of course, you're gonna bring in your own personal insights and your personality, like we talked about before, because God works so differently and so much the same in all of us. So I love that. You you I have this question written down. I want to make sure I attend to it. I I wondered before I talked to you, and you just talked about it, why do you call Ruth an outsider? Now I can see it in the context of culture, but it was there anything else underneath that?

SPEAKER_03: 8:37

Yeah, the context of culture, the the fact that she is a young widow, she she doesn't have anyone in in their culture, it's a very patriarchal society, it's a very male-driven, the women really couldn't work, they couldn't earn themselves anything. And so the fact that she was entering Israel, the Moabites were really hated among the Israelites, and so it was she was entering very alone, she did not have friends, community, nothing, anyone that she she didn't know the land, she didn't know where to go. She she was truly on her own, other than Naomi, and Naomi was in such bitter grief that Naomi couldn't see the possibilities around her. There was this bitter grief that was blinding Naomi and keeping her from seeing possibilities for Ruth. And so Ruth is having to navigate life and faith on her own, and all she is really trying to do is provide for Naomi. That's what's so beautiful about her loyalty to Naomi is that every day she just she just says, Naomi, what can I do today? Can I can I go out and clean in the fields? Would you allow me to do that? Yes, can I get that? Can I make your life better? Yes, exactly. And uh and what she is doing, she's just doing it on her own. And uh it is amazing, and you get to see all of a sudden these like little like wovenness of that God is really behind the scenes the whole time working in in Ruth's story, and it's not only Ruth's redemption, it's Naomi's redemption.

SPEAKER_00: 10:28

And it's the redemption of a line, a lineage. I mean, we haven't even capped that yet, but of course, that's a major part of this story is the lineage of Jesus. So it's just unbelievable. But just going back for a moment, there's so many things. Stephanie, I'm so sorry. There's just so many things going around in my brain. Is it safe to say? Like when we were we're talking about clinging, and just obviously Ruth was not clinging to Naomi's leg. Although she was in a liminal space kind of way, really clinging to her leg. But is it safe to say? Naomi's in her presence. And what Ruth learned in her presence and learned how to cling to then just shifted right into how she would cling to God.

SPEAKER_03: 11:34

Like it just like, you know, there's there's things that in our life that are that are physical and there are things that are spiritual.

SPEAKER_00: 11:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 11:51

And I think the way Ruth clung to Naomi is a physical representation of the internal spiritual thing that that God is creating is showing Ruth how to also cling to him.

SPEAKER_00: 12:10

Yes, and also because with the word cling, you know, I I work in a lot of mental and emotional health and try to bridge it to faith. It wasn't a relationship of a meshment, as we would say, codependent. There's no so no hints, no nowhere do we get a a sense that I can't live without you in all the wrong ways. Right, exactly. It's a very healthy maternal mothering relationship where Naomi mothers and even in turn Ruth mothers in the sense it's it's a beautiful picture image to me of a healthy female mothering, daughtering relationship of equals, yet there was hierarchy. It's it's they're engaged, two full human people. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 13:18

And they each they each have their highs and they each have their lows in in ways that they are working to provide for for each other when each other needs it. And so there's not there's not one of them that is too clingy, I would say too clingy. Yes, like yes, yes, it's not a debilitating cling, it's uh it's an empowering cling.

SPEAKER_00: 13:39

It's an empowering cling, and I think it's a really beautiful part of your book that is different, that speaks to the movement I envision us coming together, women standing shoulder to shoulder, heart to heart, mind to mind, you know, next to each other, an army of women, just empowered to advance the kingdom. I have been saying that for over a decade in my life, you know, if not longer, but I particularly know the gathering, the table I was sitting at and the event that I was at with other women, calling and charging us all to put aside, you know, put aside, put aside envy, comparison, jealousy, all of these things.

SPEAKER_02: 14:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

And I I think it's happening. I feel obviously it is happening because God is moving behind the scenes. And that was another beautiful thing that you said in the story of Ruth. There was so much God moving behind the scenes. Can you speak to that to perhaps those of us who are listening who maybe feel like we're on a dusty road and we're having to make a choice of who we will choose? Uh, will we leave behind everything we've known? To go to a place that we have no idea about. Like Ruth had never been to Bethlehem. She had no idea. Maybe she'd heard this or that. But that's not easy.

SPEAKER_02: 15:11

No.

SPEAKER_00: 15:12

It is not easy. We're on that dusty road, our feet are dusty, we're shaking, we're nervous, we're weeping aloud like they were. How do we make that choice? How do we make that choice? I know it's not an easy answer. It is.

SPEAKER_03: 15:35

It is not, you know, and I um it honestly makes me think of there's there's one scene in the Gospels that um that I love, and it always comes back to me, I think, when when we have to, when we have to make a choice. And this is this is from John 6, where Jesus was um had a really like had a hard teaching about being the bread of life. And the the people that were listening did not understand what he means that you will eat my flesh and you will drink my life. And they were just like, I'm sorry. Yes, what is corrupt is this man talking about? Yes, and uh, and at the end of this teaching, it says that many of the dis the disciples turned back and no longer followed Jesus because of this teaching. And so um at this moment, Jesus turns to the 12. And this is um John 6, um, verse 67 through 69. It says, You do not want to leave too, do you? Jesus asked the 12. Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and to know that you are the holy one of God.

SPEAKER_00: 16:49

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh my gosh. I have tolls from the top of my head to the soles of my feet. Read that one more time, that little part. You have come.

SPEAKER_03: 16:59

We have come to believe and to know that you are the holy one of God.

SPEAKER_00: 17:04

That's first John 4, 16. Oh, yes. It's repetitive there. I've been studying that for like four years in depth and talking about it. Okay. I have come to know and believe. We have come to know and believe.

SPEAKER_03: 17:17

I have come to know and believe. And that and that is what Simon Peters says. Like when he's making a decision of, well, I is this teaching too hard for me? And I think that that's at that's at any time that we are on the dusty road, that we are shaking, that we are afraid, and saying, Lord, which way am I going to go? It's a question of, well, there's really only one answer. You are the holy one of God. You are the one that gives me eternal life. No matter what the unknown looks like, that unknown is with you. God is the only answer. It is the only answer because that we are that is what God has called us into. He knows. He knows. He knows. Even though he knows. And um, and even though it it might not always feel good, it is still ultimately a part of his plan to get us to the redemption that he desires. The new heaven and the new earth is coming, and that is what we are looking forward to, and that is what the path that he has us on leads to.

SPEAKER_00: 18:33

And only imagine. Like, I really do incite everyone to read through Ruth, perhaps. Uh, especially Ruth one, since we're really honing in on that. Can't get to all four, but we maybe can read you back. But read it as a Alexio Divina, where go to Biblegateway.com, hit, you know, where it reads it over you. Maybe three or four different versions. I love to do this. Close your eyes, picture yourself in them in the scene. Because that was an excruciating moment on that dusty road. You read it to us already. Uh, Naomi is grieving. She's speaking out of her grief. They're wailing. And what if? Here's that what if, right? It's if you've ever seen the Gwyneth Paltrow movie Sliding Doors. Woo! It's a sliding door moment where what if Ruth had gone back with Orpah? That is a providential what if. And we all have, we Whether you believe it or not, you might think you don't matter. You might think God isn't looking and watching you. But he's Elroy and He sees, God who sees. Right now in your life, you might be there. What if in that moment, you know, but she made the right choice. And she made the right choice. I want you to check me. Because she was clinging to the God of Naomi through Naomi.

SPEAKER_01: 20:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 20:37

Yes. And Jill, you had me thinking on that in that Ruth made the right choice. And you know, and I think that there are times in all of our lives where maybe we didn't make the right choice. We went back the other way.

SPEAKER_00: 20:53

Thank you. Yes. Stephanie, you're a wonder.

SPEAKER_03: 20:57

We went back the other way. We did. But the beauty of that is that the Lord is like, I'm still here. He's our redeemer. He's our redeemer. And and He He can redeem those times that we didn't make the right choice. And it's never too late to come back and to start over and to then start walking down the path with him.

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

Will you talk to us and lead us out here? I feel like I want to have an altar call, to be very honest. You are just a wonder. I want to sit at your table. It is not fluff. It is really true. You have really spoken to us to the depths, and we've just scratched the surface, but the surface was worthy of scratching. Because will you just lead us out here in this is going off this week, man? We're putting this out, have to. It's perfect for the second week of a new year. Great. Because we have all made the wrong choice. That's a universal statement. But I think if you've lived long enough, you've made one bad choice.

unknown: 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:06

Yeah, absolutely. I just want everyone to remember that our Lord is Redeemer and He is the God of refuge. And wherever you are right now, whatever you are going through, the brokenness that you see around you, the grief, the trauma that you might feel, he is our God of refuge. And I just pray that you would cling to him today. Cling to him in a way that might feel new. It might feel hard. It might feel like something you don't want to do.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

It might feel needy. Like I don't like to be needy, Stephanie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:45

I like to be strong. Right. And we have, and and I love Andi Colbert's Strong Like Water. We just talked about her on the we had her on the show, but then I reviewed it the very last session episode of this year to be fluid. You know, there's like fluid strength. And my book's stronger every day. So I have been studying strong for a while, but I think it's a reminder that we have a lot of high-functioning, remarkable luminarist luminous women in this community, leaders, who feel like yourself. You tell me if I'm, I'd love to be corrected, who feel a need to have that strong persona. And who really don't like, look at my face. Like I just listen, like be needy, you know, be like clingy.

SPEAKER_03: 23:42

Yeah, I think I think we all do feel the need to be strong all the time. And yeah, yeah. And we've got times where we need to be real and vulnerable and let someone else know you're not feeling very strong right now. And that's okay.

unknown: 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:03

And it's worth a vulnerability hangover. Vulnerability is such a hard word for me to say. It's worth the risk. It is. Where? How can women start a table at their church or in their home or in their community? You started the table. Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_03: 24:26

Yes. So myself and two other women, we started the table out of a need and desire for the women of our own church to be able to study God's word together. You know, each of us individually, and the the three of us that started this, we had had, we knew the power that that comes together when women bring down their guard and they sit around a table with nothing in common other than the desire to know God's word. There's something beautiful in that. And so my charge to you is you can start it anywhere. You can start it with any women that you know that need to know God's word. The table Bible studies are we always say we want them to be bite-sized but nourishing. And so something that are it's short seven-week study. So it's not not a year-long commitment or anything like that, but just something that you can fit into a busy schedule. But when you do it, you see how meaningful it is and you feel nourished and you walk away knowing and taste and see that the Lord is good. That is our motto at the table, and is my prayer for anyone who opens Roots Need for Redeemer or anyone that comes together to just to study scripture with women, is that you would taste and see that the Lord is good.

SPEAKER_00: 25:51

And you'll leave wrecked because I'm leaving wrecked today. Look what we did in 50 minutes, 60 minutes. We went ahead and did it. I said we were gonna go short, but no, Chanel can't do it. I can't do short. We have to go deep. We went so deep. So the table then, do you have a place where women uh is this a what's the word? Boy, I'm searching for my word stay until it's Monday. Structure, do you have a guidelines? Do you have yes? Okay, tell us.

SPEAKER_03: 26:26

Okay, so in the if you get Roots Need for Redeemer, there are there are structure and guidelines of how to run your own little study. And so everything that you need is in there. And you'll find in the book that there are there is scripture to do personal study with questions to answer on your own. And then there is um some guidelines to show you how to discuss that as a group. And then to um then there are um is a QR code for video teachings that you can as a group all watch together and um and the teachings are to happen at the end so that you have already studied it on your own. We're doing it like the pyramid said. You um come in with the preparation and the conversation before you watch those videos. And then my prayer is always that whatever you learn, that there is something that a nugget that you would take and you would share with someone else. Because whatever you share with someone else, you are it's like 90% sure that you will remember that one nugget. So go and share that good news and um let other people know what you are learning.

SPEAKER_00: 27:32

Are you in the videos? Please tell me yes. I am, yes. Okay, good. And what are the next two studies? That's a three-parter, right?

SPEAKER_03: 27:40

This is a three-part. So this this first one is on Ruth. The um I'm calling this the Redeemer series. Yes. And so it is um looking at different women in scripture and how they were a part of God's redemption plan. And so this first one is Ruth. The second one is Hannah and Mary. So it's Hannah from the Old Testament, and then yes, and then Mary, the mother of Jesus. And what is so cool is that God connects their stories, these two women, Old Testament to New Testament, and um, so we look at their connections, and I love connecting Old Testament to New Testament. And so that is Hannah and Mary's trust in the Redeemer. And then the third one is the women that actually lived, um, were with Jesus, they encountered Jesus. It is the women of the gospels, it is their life with the Redeemer.

SPEAKER_00: 28:30

Thank you for coming to our table and for challenging us, for inciting us, for encouraging us, and for just giving us a fresh perspective for this new year.

unknown: 28:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 28:44

Well, thank you so much, Janelle, for having me. I have felt the Lord's presence in this conversation, and I'm just grateful that we got to have it.

unknown: 28:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 28:54

Thanks for listening, Heartlifter. What a privilege to be with you today. Let's keep this conversation going on Substack at Heartlift Central, Instagram at Janelle Rarden, Facebook at today's Heartlift with Janelle. And if you would be so kind, please leave a review and a rating and support the show through any size donation, tax deductible or just a gift. All the information you need is on my site, JanelleRarden dot com. Heartlifter, remember, you have value, worth, and dignity.